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Deno Is Webby

blog.jim-nielsen.com

91–100 of 215 posts

Re: Deno Is Webby

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameless plug. Disclaimer. I work for Cloudflare. Have you tried Workers? You can do the same in a playground [1]. You can also do the same by deploying a worker through the dashboard UI (including writing the code). Nothing to link though because you need an account. The playground is limited in what it can do because it’s not deployed. You can also use Pages to point at a repo which lets you build a website and se…

Please purchase Deno the company before dismantling their only source of income through deno deploy--deno the tool is too nice to lose!

To be fair, CF workers is much older than Deno by a few years. I don’t see us as dismantling anything - do you blame the wind mill or Don Quixote for tilting at them? This is a very competitive space too. Cloudflare is but one player and I don’t think the ones who do well will focus just on the serverless infrastructure piece. It’s more about having a very complete product story that solves pain points better than anyone else for a price that’s better than anyone else (ie build on a more solid foundation).

Since Workers started before Rust was a thing, Deno have a mild advantage on development velocity of the runtime (C++ is more annoying in some ways). They’ve also compounded that velocity by writing most of the runtime in Typescript whereas our runtime is in C++.

However, our runtime is far more battle tested at scale which means trickier distributed systems problems solved and more efficiencies of scale (+ c++ has less of a memory hit than TS so it will be interesting to see if they can hit the memory scale needed to support many customers simultaneously). Personally I wish them the best as I think competition is always critical to force you to focus on making a better product.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#92
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameless plug. Disclaimer. I work for Cloudflare. Have you tried Workers? You can do the same in a playground [1]. You can also do the same by deploying a worker through the dashboard UI (including writing the code). Nothing to link though because you need an account. The playground is limited in what it can do because it’s not deployed. You can also use Pages to point at a repo which lets you build a website and se…

Yes big fan of Workers and Cf. The only issue it was confusing tying the domain to the worker, but that was a few years ago - last I tried it a couple months ago seemed easier.

Yeah, I think the launch of our own registrar service simplified onboarding of custom domains (by default all workers are available on workers.dev domains).

Re: Deno Is Webby

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of questions: “Make [] false-y” Why? “Add macros” Why? How? “Bring back `with`” Why?

Not GP, but I really like [] being false in ruby and python because I often want to ask "is this variable that should hold a collection holding a collection of things, or is it empty/false?"

Why an array with zero element should be false? It doesn't make a lot of sense. And writing if (array.length > 0) is more explicit than writing if (array) anyway. Even in python, I prefer to be explicit and say if len(array) > 0 than to rely on implicit conversion rules.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's even worse than that, because by being "webby" here Deno has committed itself to alert(); multiple browser vendors (including Mozilla) have advocated removing alert() from the web platform. (They want to do that because alert() "stops the world" by blocking the main thread event loop, and because they make it easy for a site to post a message that appears to come from Chrome itself, or from another websi…

Removing alert is nonsense, and I don't think they will ever do (without breaking a ton of websites that use it). Why as a developer should I have to make a modal with HTML+CSS+JS to show it to just have a prompt that inform the user about something? Ok, alert is ugly, but for a lot of situations (= industrial software) it's perfectly acceptable.

Why as a user should I have to endure a website with an intrusive user of alert? I don't care what happens to websites that use alert, I never want to see my browser get locked up because of lazy devs wanting to use alerts.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#95
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of questions: “Make [] false-y” Why? “Add macros” Why? How? “Bring back `with`” Why?

Macros with a standard library would have saved us from many compatibility and bloat issues when they would have arrived before things like the class keyword.

Macros doesn't have that utility in a language with high-order functions.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#96
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing alert is nonsense, and I don't think they will ever do (without breaking a ton of websites that use it). Why as a developer should I have to make a modal with HTML+CSS+JS to show it to just have a prompt that inform the user about something? Ok, alert is ugly, but for a lot of situations (= industrial software) it's perfectly acceptable.

Why as a user should I have to endure a website with an intrusive user of alert? I don't care what happens to websites that use alert, I never want to see my browser get locked up because of lazy devs wanting to use alerts.

Alerts haven't locked up the browser since the Bush administration.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#97
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing alert is nonsense, and I don't think they will ever do (without breaking a ton of websites that use it). Why as a developer should I have to make a modal with HTML+CSS+JS to show it to just have a prompt that inform the user about something? Ok, alert is ugly, but for a lot of situations (= industrial software) it's perfectly acceptable.

Why as a user should I have to endure a website with an intrusive user of alert? I don't care what happens to websites that use alert, I never want to see my browser get locked up because of lazy devs wanting to use alerts.

That only because the implementation is poor. It doesn’t have to be intrusive.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#98

I'm sorry but all those examples and Deno's documentation in general should be in JavaScript. I respect the devs right to choose which ever language they want, but Deno seems to want to be the standard bearer for the power of scripting and web standards [1]. If that's the case, then they are causing more harm than good by focusing exclusively on TypeScript, which isn't a language as much as a set of macros on top of…

The idea of TS is not bad, but they had to forbid any and other ways to escape the type system. I get tons of runtime errors on my TS projects as well because someone down the chain decided they couldn't be bothered with types. Also, having to do type definitions for modules which don't have types is a massive pain. Overall, I appreciate the type safety, but I don't think TS delivers on that promise and I'd rather us…

[deleted]

Re: Deno Is Webby

#99
post #4

This is nice, until its not. I have spent a fair amount of time over the last several years trying to make node act like the browser, or vice versa. It's doubly confusing to juniors who don't understand the difference between a language and a runtime. alert() looks like a standard function and should be specified by the ECMAScript Language Specification. But its actually specified by the HTML standard, because its Wi…

This has also unfortunately been my experience, even when working with developers that have several years of experience writing JS. There seems to be a big gap in knowledge when it comes to boundaries between the language specification, runtimes, and innate abilities. People consistently confused about why they can't use JSX without a build-step, not understanding that JSX isn't "real", why doesn't fetch() work in No…

Thus makes me feel less junior than I sometimes feel. I may not have a CS degree but at least I understand a good amount of this stuff.

Re: Deno Is Webby

#100
post #4

This is nice, until its not. I have spent a fair amount of time over the last several years trying to make node act like the browser, or vice versa. It's doubly confusing to juniors who don't understand the difference between a language and a runtime. alert() looks like a standard function and should be specified by the ECMAScript Language Specification. But its actually specified by the HTML standard, because its Wi…

Why is having a different API other than window.alert() a better alternative, though? That just makes it confusing in a different way; that you have to know to use different APIs depending on whether you're targeting the browser or server.
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