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Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

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Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#161

Post by blub »

csmpltn wrote: post #122
blub wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being on the same continent is a very basic minimum requirement which Syria doesn’t pass.

> "Being on the same continent is a very basic minimum requirement which Syria doesn’t pass." Why is being on the same continent a "very basic minimum requirement"?

Because neighbor in this context literally means next to or very near another country. Open any map and you’ll se that Syria’s neighbors are Iraq and Turkey, not Sweden and Germany.

The EU doesn’t owe any support to Syria, critics should be thankful that the EU is doing so much given the cost in social harmony and a rise in extreme right-wing sentiments.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#162

Post by koonsolo »

eldaisfish wrote: post #138
koonsolo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of EU and NATO countries are post-soviet. The difference is only 1 or 2 generations away. When you have an incompatible religion, it's not generations away, when those generations hold on to that religion. That is the difference between Europeans with an older mentality, and people coming from a religion that doesn't share European values.

>When you have an incompatible religion That is a BIG generalisation and assumes there is a compatible religion. This is why Ukrainian propaganda is so dangerous. Poland and Hungary still have massive problems with LGBT rights and general tolerance. All signs point to the fact that Ukraine will be similar if not worse.

> assumes there is a compatible religion

Of course there is a compatible religion: Take buddhism for example.

I agree that Poland and Hungary have problems with LGBT rights, but like I said, that is the 1 or 2 generational gap. Ukraine might indeed have that same problem. But give it a generation or 2.

My wife is from Slovakia, and also there you can see the difference between mentality. Newer generations are more tolerant.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#163

Post by spaniard89277 »

csmpltn wrote: post #82
spaniard89277 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like ucranians are fellow europeans. I guess it's the same for Norweigians. If you look for a well-defined and rational response, I don't think there's one. Anyway, I'd like to say that people is being too cynical about this. There has been, and there are right now, many efforts in Europe for supporting and integrating non-european refugees and inmigrants. This "oh look, they care because they're white", well,…

> "I feel like ucranians are fellow europeans." > "If you look for a well-defined and rational response, I don't think there's one." The lack of a well-defined and rational response, beyond vague feelings, is what causes this discussion to eventually reduce down to claims of pure racism. We're denying that there's racism and xenophobia involved, whilst simultaneously being unable to explain why we're seeing those dif…

They are not getting the same level of support? Last time I checked there was free housing, food etc and guidance for all of them, not to mention the thousands of NGOs that cover all roles.

I'm sorry but all I can see in this criticism is people who feel uneasy because we feel closer to Ucranians.

I don't feel sorry for it, honestly.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#164

Post by csmpltn »

blub wrote: post #161
csmpltn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Being on the same continent is a very basic minimum requirement which Syria doesn’t pass." Why is being on the same continent a "very basic minimum requirement"?

Because neighbor in this context literally means next to or very near another country. Open any map and you’ll se that Syria’s neighbors are Iraq and Turkey, not Sweden and Germany. The EU doesn’t owe any support to Syria, critics should be thankful that the EU is doing so much given the cost in social harmony and a rise in extreme right-wing sentiments.

> "Because neighbor in this context literally means next to or very near another country. Open any map and you’ll se that Syria’s neighbors are Iraq and Turkey, not Sweden and Germany."

Sweden and Germany aren't next to, or "very near" to, Ukraine. Next to Ukraine are Russia, Belarus, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Poland and Turkey.

If you're fine with people from Ukraine coming to Sweden and Germany on the basis of Ukraine's geographical proximity to those countries, I'm not sure why you'd be against people from Syria coming to Sweden and Germany.

A lot of Syrians sought asylum in Greece and Italy - they're not that far from Syria after-all?

> "The EU doesn’t owe any support to Syria"

What does the EU "owe" Ukraine? Ukraine isn't a member state either, just like Syria. Does the EU also owe Georgia or Moldova anything?

I think you need to take a break and contemplate your biases and presuppositions towards people.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#166

Post by _qfhw »

Etheryte wrote: post #26

There's already a number of comments trying to spin this in one racially loaded way or another discrimination loaded way or such. Please stop. I'll try to explain why your take is misguided with a parable which you can no doubt poke countless holes into. Say you've lived in one place your whole life. You have a neighbour, and they've lived their whole life there as well. One day your neighbour comes to you and asks f…

Respectfully; this forum encourages discussion. It is not good enough to say Ukrainians are neighbours and would integrate better than refugees from other countries. At the expense of devolving into whataboutism, Eastern and Western Europe do have their genuine cultural differences. Will the western world still be as accommodating of Eastern European refugees in ten or twenty years?

Let us not speak in parables and downvote legitimate conversation.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#167

Post by blub »

csmpltn wrote: post #164
blub wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because neighbor in this context literally means next to or very near another country. Open any map and you’ll se that Syria’s neighbors are Iraq and Turkey, not Sweden and Germany. The EU doesn’t owe any support to Syria, critics should be thankful that the EU is doing so much given the cost in social harmony and a rise in extreme right-wing sentiments.

> "Because neighbor in this context literally means next to or very near another country. Open any map and you’ll se that Syria’s neighbors are Iraq and Turkey, not Sweden and Germany." Sweden and Germany aren't next to, or "very near" to, Ukraine. Next to Ukraine are Russia, Belarus, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Poland and Turkey. If you're fine with people from Ukraine coming to Sweden and Germany on the ba…

Western Europe are helping Poland and Romania which are direct neighbors and do have to accept refugees.

Actually the real mystery is why the EU would take anyone at all from Syria, which is pure courtesy and zero obligation. And the answer is that the EU is a wannabe moral superpower that’s great at taking in refugees (or people claiming to be refugees) and bad at everything that comes after. It’s already over its capacity to absorb outsiders. In the end the EU heads of state act surprised that anti-foreigner sentiments and the popularity of right-wing parties are rising, rinse and repeat while the wheels haven’t fallen off yet.

The UK seem to know their limits since their new found independence and just as expected they’re getting skewered for not throwing the gates wide open.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#168

Post by bmn__ »

ir123 wrote: post #156
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Ukraine has the same issue every other post-Soviet country has, even the EU ones, like corruption and poverty. But after the 2014 revolution the people of Ukraine proved that they prefer western values more than being Putin's puppet state.

What are western values?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17284511

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#169

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

csmpltn wrote: post #150
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do we treat those groups differently then? Because it's much easier and safer to integrate people with the same religion, ethnicity, that come form a peaceful country with a good track record in STEM[1], meaning they have a high chance they will integrate well with the locals and be productive, with a low chance of unemployment, crime and social unrest that usually comes from importing people from countries with…

You're making a lot of broad, unfounded claims. According to [1], Ukraine has a "A long path towards integration" (into the European Union): > "Of course, it is not only Ukraine’s population but its level of economic development that makes membership so costly for the EU. Ukraine is much poorer than Bulgaria, the poorest existing EU member state. Using 2013 World Bank pre-crisis (mid-year) figures, Ukraine’s GDP per…

I was talking about the Ukrainian people and you're talking about Ukraine the country. Different things.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#170

Post by yreg »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #118
yreg wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that anything below the "top dollar" is peanuts. I would consider even a fraction of what big tech pays to be fair enough. Thanks to scarcity we can ask for more.

>I would consider even a fraction of what big tech pays to be fair enough. Thanks to scarcity we can ask for more. Maybe in the US and Berlin/London/Amsterdam that holds true where VC money is constantly raining from the sky keeping the demand higher than the labor supply, but in most of west EU, outside of big tech, the pay of most IT & dev jobs are in line with all other office work grunts. I wouldn't consider the…

My point is it's not peanuts either.
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