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Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

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Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#111

Post by gruez »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #92
galfarragem wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're helping our neighbour. Cynical view here: We're helping ourselves. We all know how difficult is to find good devs (edited: with subpar compensation) nowadays. The same applies on different fields also. As an anecdote, Portuguese government is _actively_ asking Ukrainian refugees to come to Portugal and sending them directly to areas known for chronic worker shortage. Ukrainians, typically, are not social secu…

>We all know how difficult is to find good devs nowadays. Difficult to find good devs willing to work for peanuts maybe. Companies with a great culture and paying top dollar/euro have no trouble getting an influx of quality people, even willing to grind through several stages of interview practices to get in. By the same logic, I also have trouble finding quality Ferraris. Though I omit to say my budget of $5000 migh…

>By the same logic, I also have trouble finding quality Ferraris. Though I omit to say my budget of $5000 might be the main issue here, so I spread propaganda everywhere that good Ferraris are tough to find.

Can we extend this to more sympathetic/relatable goods? ie.

"By the same logic, I also have trouble finding quality GPUs. Though I omit to say my budget of $500 might be the main issue here, so I spread propaganda everywhere that good GPUs are tough to find."

Or

"By the same logic, I also have trouble finding PS5s. Though I omit to say my budget of $500 might be the main issue here, so I spread propaganda everywhere that PS5s are tough to find."

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#112

Post by galfarragem »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #49
Etheryte wrote: post #26

There's already a number of comments trying to spin this in one racially loaded way or another discrimination loaded way or such. Please stop. I'll try to explain why your take is misguided with a parable which you can no doubt poke countless holes into. Say you've lived in one place your whole life. You have a neighbour, and they've lived their whole life there as well. One day your neighbour comes to you and asks f…

No, this looks at Europeans with Rose tinted glasses. I think there is innate tribalism in all of us. We can all rationally fight it and we rationally know what is morally the right thing to do. But it is in our core psychology to look for similarities/differences and identify as close/distance to other people. The Ukrainian government has also made an amazing job at galvanizing EU social media around this. The messa…

> In many ways the Ukrainians have succeeded in an information war where the Georgians, Armenians, Sirians, Yemenis have been unfortunately less successful.

Ukrainian government is killing it on the "media war" and certainly a case study for the future. It certainly helps that the President is a comedian by trade and backed by producers and screenwriters - they know exactly what people want to ear/see/read. Of course this has also a (huge) negative side but this is another story. Some stuff that makes sense in a movie, doesn't make sense on real life. Scenarios and deaths are real.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#113

Post by throwaway290 »

older wrote: post #105
throwaway290 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who called for the government to end the war on social media or IRL is safe. It is black letter of law that it is punishable by imprisonment.

Do you have any examples of someone being imprisoned for this? Or you're just making assumptions? So far all I see is that everyone detained for participation in anti-war protests in Russia were released after questioning and being issued warning.

The existence of the law is not an assumption.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#114

Post by blub »

csmpltn wrote: post #50
Etheryte wrote: post #26

There's already a number of comments trying to spin this in one racially loaded way or another discrimination loaded way or such. Please stop. I'll try to explain why your take is misguided with a parable which you can no doubt poke countless holes into. Say you've lived in one place your whole life. You have a neighbour, and they've lived their whole life there as well. One day your neighbour comes to you and asks f…

> "People go up and above for Ukraine because they're that neighbour" Where do you draw the line on "neighbor"? Why Ukraine but not Syria?

Being on the same continent is a very basic minimum requirement which Syria doesn’t pass.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#115

Post by Aeolun »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #9
Aeolun wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

'they share the same culture and values?' How does one determine thus? For example, do Trump supporters and BLM activists share the same values? Are they closer to each-other that a random kid from syria? I am glad that Ukrainian refugees are being treated with conpassion, but I don't think we are treating others fairly. At the very least we should have internstional law where countries that drop the most bombs must…

> I am glad that Ukrainian refugees are being treated with conpassion, but I don't think we are treating others fairly.

Maybe not, but just because we’re not equally nice to everyone doesn’t mean it’s not still nice. And there is no need to immediately jump on this news to push your agenda. Especially when the answer is obvious (surprisingly enough as much as Europe doesn’t want refugees, they’ve taken in quite a few).

That said, given the past few days, I imagine you’ll see Europe doing more for Ukrainian refugees than you’d ever seen them do for Syrian refugees.

In more than one way, attacking Ukraine feels like an attack on Europe in a way that an attack on Syria does not.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#116

Post by yreg »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #92
galfarragem wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're helping our neighbour. Cynical view here: We're helping ourselves. We all know how difficult is to find good devs (edited: with subpar compensation) nowadays. The same applies on different fields also. As an anecdote, Portuguese government is _actively_ asking Ukrainian refugees to come to Portugal and sending them directly to areas known for chronic worker shortage. Ukrainians, typically, are not social secu…

>We all know how difficult is to find good devs nowadays. Difficult to find good devs willing to work for peanuts maybe. Companies with a great culture and paying top dollar/euro have no trouble getting an influx of quality people, even willing to grind through several stages of interview practices to get in. By the same logic, I also have trouble finding quality Ferraris. Though I omit to say my budget of $5000 migh…

I disagree that anything below the "top dollar" is peanuts.

I would consider even a fraction of what big tech pays to be fair enough. Thanks to scarcity we can ask for more.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#117

Post by koonsolo »

eldaisfish wrote: post #106
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this looks at Europeans with Rose tinted glasses. I think there is innate tribalism in all of us. We can all rationally fight it and we rationally know what is morally the right thing to do. But it is in our core psychology to look for similarities/differences and identify as close/distance to other people. The Ukrainian government has also made an amazing job at galvanizing EU social media around this. The messa…

Quoted post unavailable.

Lots of EU and NATO countries are post-soviet. The difference is only 1 or 2 generations away.

When you have an incompatible religion, it's not generations away, when those generations hold on to that religion. That is the difference between Europeans with an older mentality, and people coming from a religion that doesn't share European values.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#118

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

yreg wrote: post #116
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We all know how difficult is to find good devs nowadays. Difficult to find good devs willing to work for peanuts maybe. Companies with a great culture and paying top dollar/euro have no trouble getting an influx of quality people, even willing to grind through several stages of interview practices to get in. By the same logic, I also have trouble finding quality Ferraris. Though I omit to say my budget of $5000 migh…

I disagree that anything below the "top dollar" is peanuts. I would consider even a fraction of what big tech pays to be fair enough. Thanks to scarcity we can ask for more.

>I would consider even a fraction of what big tech pays to be fair enough. Thanks to scarcity we can ask for more.

Maybe in the US and Berlin/London/Amsterdam that holds true where VC money is constantly raining from the sky keeping the demand higher than the labor supply, but in most of west EU, outside of big tech, the pay of most IT & dev jobs are in line with all other office work grunts.

I wouldn't consider the 50K for mid levels and 80K for seniors, a dev salary to write home about in a high CoL EU country.

Making the labor pool bigger will not improve the wages.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#119

Post by Akronymus »

smackay wrote: post #33
Etheryte wrote: post #26

There's already a number of comments trying to spin this in one racially loaded way or another discrimination loaded way or such. Please stop. I'll try to explain why your take is misguided with a parable which you can no doubt poke countless holes into. Say you've lived in one place your whole life. You have a neighbour, and they've lived their whole life there as well. One day your neighbour comes to you and asks f…

This is the wrong way to look at it. If Syrian refugees had the media coverage Ukrainian ones do there'd be job boards for them and much more besides. People are reacting to the magnitude of the perceived crisis. Peoples' compassion pretty much knows no borders. If there is any finger-pointing to be done then it's at the mainstream media not at how individuals or groups are trying to help human beings in need.

With Syria, they share much less commonalities in terms of culture than Ukrainians.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#120

Post by hkpack »

cute_boi wrote: post #94
hkpack wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be thinking that it's a Putin's war, but I can assure you, Russian people are wholeheartedly support the war. Even people who live abroad. > It scares me how people lose their minds to xenophobia, war, and hate Because while some russians are experiencing "hate and xenophobia", civilian people is Ukraine are being brutally killed in thousands using unguided bombs, artillery strikes or MLRSs. For you, dead o…

Can you please justify "Russian people are wholeheartedly support the war". I know you are making this specious statement because if this was the case why Russian government do shenanigans during election? Clearly, many people doesn't support him. People seem to forget 1 person can control hundreds cattle. And there is high chance, 1 police can easily control 20 people. I have a lot of friends in Russia, and they all…

It is very difficult to put such complex topic into a post, so let me summarise with bullet points. Let me know what parts to expand or provide sources for:

1. Russia tried to get ahold of Ukraine for multiple centuries already, so it is engraved in the culture of both Ukrainians and Russians.

2. The last time Ukraine lost a war to Russia was in 1920, which was followed by a century of terror and genocide [0] from Russian side which ended in 1991 by the collapse of USSR.

3. Because Ukraine was always considered a rebellious state, a manufactured USSR propaganda was that Russians are "big russians" and Ukrainians are "small Russians". The point was that big Russians where superior in every way, while small russians where uneducated villagers.

4. Ukrainian culture is being denied by Russians for more than a century, by means that Ukrainian language was forbidden, and all major cultural figures were either killed or displaced to Gulags.

5. The collapse of the USSR and the weakening of Russia allowed some of these to be reversed and Ukrainian language and culture started to be getting revived.

6. 30 years later from the collapse of USSR, Russians are still in a full denial of Ukrainian culture and think that Ukrainians are just Russians with anti-russia nazism.

So culturally, Russians are sure that killing all the nazis will return Ukraine to their "brotherhood" and hence wholeheartedly support this "special operation to denazify Ukraine" as it is called by Russian media.

Source: have some of the family in Russia as well as some russian family members in Ukraine, who are completely sure they are helping people of Ukraine right now and support this. All of the deaths and suffering are justified for them, because the "anti-russian nazis" have to be killed anyway.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

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