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Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

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Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#141

Post by AnimalMuppet »

pmoriarty wrote: post #134
technobabbler wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO only, not an expert/informed analysis: Buddhism can be a risk to Chinese harmony if left to a separate authority (the real Dalai Lama). The Chinese grand social experiment of a strong state can only really work if they are relatively culturally homogenous, whether in Tibet or Hong Kong or Xinjiang or Taiwan. Dissent plants the seeds of change, and the CCP's system doesn't work when there is too much diversity of…

"Buddhism can be a risk to Chinese harmony" It boggles my mind that anyone would consider to be harmonious a society that kills, imprisons, tortures, censors, and brainwashes so many of its own people.

"Harmony" is an important value in Confucianism, which means it's a value with a lot of importance in Chinese culture. Governments increase their legitimacy by being perceived to offer harmony. The Chinese government therefore couches its propaganda in terms of it offering harmony, and other things threatening harmony.

I'm not saying that cyberpunk is a Chinese propagandist - just that he/she has adopted their term (perhaps from hearing them use it so much).

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#142

Post by pasquinelli »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #104
whimsicalism wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but are you at all familiar with the history of pre-CCP Tibet? Their "theocracy" was likely worse than Saudi Arabias, both in terms of the sorts of punishments they inflicted upon their populace (routine gouging of the eyes, chopping of the limbs, and then hanging up for display) as well as the autocratic (serf-like) structure built up.

I am more familiar with the history of pre British India. Thankfully the British "civilized" my country. Surely China will do the same to Tibet. The excuses people make for colonialism remain the same as centuries pass by.

the history between china and tibet isn't the history between britain and india.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#143

Post by R0b0t1 »

skilled wrote: post #88
technobabbler wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... what did they think was the future for Tibet?

I certainly didn't ask that question from a political perspective. I'm not delusional to assume that Tibet and its people stand a chance against China. And this was also reflected in their answers. They're mostly concerned with ensuring that people have a safe passage out of there (having the ability to go to India and lead a life without oppression), while trying to negotiate peace deals for sacred locations and the…

Is it expected Han Chinese will move in to displace the Tibetans? Why are they focusing on safe passage?

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#144

Post by tedk-42 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #101
pm90 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Both the Tibetans and the people of Xinjiang deserve much better than what they currently have.

And in Tigray and in Mali and in Yemen, ...

And the Kurds in the middle east

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#145

Post by chaostheory »

skilled wrote: post #53

I lived in Dharamshala (home to the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government-in-exile) for 3 months a few years ago. My partner at the time went back to the US to visit family, and I didn't want to leave Asia so I went there since I had some interest in Buddhism at the time, too. In random book stores, I met actual monks who had served time (in China) as political prisoners. One of which had also written a book about it…

> But, as for the stories themselves, probably not that funny.

You can't mention this and not tell a story or two

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#146

Post by estaseuropano »

cyberpunk wrote: post #65

As a zen Buddhist, I've always kinda felt our Tibetan 'dharma brothers' style of buddhism (admittedly, I don't know a lot about) feels much more like a proper religion than the kind of thing I've been into.. Which put me off quite a lot of it, I still hope to someday visit the place. It’s pretty sad that such an essentially peaceful and introspective group of people are abused thus, even if they believe in some prett…

I practice anapana and vipassana so can empathise, but it is plain ignorant to think Buddhists are necessarily peaceful. Tibet was a violent warrior kingdom and Buddhists have committed many crimes too. See the ongoing (!!) genocide in Myanmar where Buddhists slaughter Muslims. You could argue those agent real Buddhists, but thats just another Scotsman.

I don't mean to diminish the crimes the Chinese continue to commit against the Tibetans, nor the benefits of Buddhist practice, but seeing Buddhism with rose tinted glasses is just not reflecting reality.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#147

Post by yongjik »

whimsicalism wrote: post #84
cuteboy19 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many kinds of "theocracy". The islamic republic of Pakistan is significantly better than Saudi Arabia. Or would your rather have them both as "rightful Chinese territory"?

Sure, but are you at all familiar with the history of pre-CCP Tibet? Their "theocracy" was likely worse than Saudi Arabias, both in terms of the sorts of punishments they inflicted upon their populace (routine gouging of the eyes, chopping of the limbs, and then hanging up for display) as well as the autocratic (serf-like) structure built up.

Are you sure you want to do comparison? As late as 1863, captured leaders of the Taiping Rebellion were sentenced to death by slicing flesh off the body until they died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Dakai

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#148

Post by whimsicalism »

yongjik wrote: post #147
whimsicalism wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but are you at all familiar with the history of pre-CCP Tibet? Their "theocracy" was likely worse than Saudi Arabias, both in terms of the sorts of punishments they inflicted upon their populace (routine gouging of the eyes, chopping of the limbs, and then hanging up for display) as well as the autocratic (serf-like) structure built up.

Are you sure you want to do comparison? As late as 1863, captured leaders of the Taiping Rebellion were sentenced to death by slicing flesh off the body until they died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Dakai

This is whataboutism. No relevance to the issue at hand whatsoever.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#149

Post by jhvkjhk »

throwaway_1928 wrote: post #73
cyberpunk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what, china thinks tibet will somehow find a way to stop rivers running? Or the kind of people who move individual ants while building temples would poison such waters? I still don't get it. Maybe it's those little blue flowers from Batman Begins they're after? >_<

China is already planning the "world's riskiest mega dam" in Tibet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEYuRFJ12iw . It plans to use water supply as a weapon against India.

The video said the aim is to reduce CO2 emission.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#150

Post by amanaplanacanal »

cyberpunk wrote: post #93
technobabbler wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO only, not an expert/informed analysis: Buddhism can be a risk to Chinese harmony if left to a separate authority (the real Dalai Lama). The Chinese grand social experiment of a strong state can only really work if they are relatively culturally homogenous, whether in Tibet or Hong Kong or Xinjiang or Taiwan. Dissent plants the seeds of change, and the CCP's system doesn't work when there is too much diversity of…

I would hope that China would understand Buddhism enough to know that there is no possible separate authority... I mean, the Heart sutra almost definitely came from China.. Although, I admit that I do have a hard time knitting together Tibetan and Burmese etc forms of Buddhism with what my understanding is (zen). They seem to genuinely worship Gautama Buddha as if he was some kinda god or something. That's not what w…

The way I look at it: it's all skilful means. What you believe isn't the point, the practices are to help you reach enlightenment. In that sense, it probably doesn't matter if you practice zen, Tibetan, or Thai forest variety. But I'm pretty heretical by nature.
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