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US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

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Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#571

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

I wonder if our interconnected world will make this different. I’m guessing people are more adversely affected by DST than previously. Also from your link: > In the state of Florida alone, at least six school children were killed by motorists due to the dark mornings created by the new law. I wonder how in the world they attributed that to DST?

North America does seem to like their cars, and is quite hellbent on finding any explanation for deaths caused by automobiles that absolves the system from having to take any responsibility or do anything (e.g. build infrastructure, regulate cars, etc.).

Of course, that's not to say that six school children being killed by motorists didn't happen after the time _didn't_ switch, but to pretend that the preceding week or two were materially different in terms of light / dark levels to the degree that driving was significantly more dangerous would mean we have to accept that certain hours at certain times of year are always more dangerous (and we should then enforce more restrictions on when one may drive).

If the idea that not switching to driving an hour later causes more dead children sounds preposterous, then DST seems to be a straw-man being propped up. More likely: there was general unhappiness about the change, and people were motivated to find a reason to repeal the law (and cars and bad car-centric planning came in to save the day). It's very easy to take the wind out of a political movement for change, but not necessarily to put them back in. I've been meaning to read Jessie Singer's new book [1], and this seems similar in that regard. Rather than acknowledge that our society has built things (e.g. bad infrastructure) that cause harm (six children died) we instead point at the problem and any attempt to make change anywhere in the system is looked down upon because that would be interacting with the problem, which makes you responsible for any effect of it down the line [2].

Overall, I think my take-away is that we know that shifting the clocks twice a year causes some non-zero amount of suffering (and doesn't have a large justification for _why_). Rather than "Chesterton's fence" ourselves into inaction, we shouldn't let past reasons dictate our choices here. There's surely a lot of overhead with regard to making this change (my heart goes to anyone who has to work with international date / time APIs), but even with knowing that I still don't think it's a bad idea. A unanimous vote by the US Senate surely says that there's some will towards doing this, since it's rare for anything to be this bi-partisan nowadays...

[1]: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/There-Are-No-Accident... [2]: https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#572

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

Its so strange how people on this thread are complaining about the issues you mentioned, but twice every year I see articles on hackernews/other areas about how bad the effects of changing time to DST and back and how detrimental it is for everyone's health. People can't have it both ways.

My gut suspicion is why this passed is people are more angrier and stressed out/depressed than they have been in a very long time and its an appeasement so they don't take their anger out at the polls come November, that and it is an easy thing to change that requires next to no stimulus. I expect more of these appeasement bills to start passing as gas heads to the moon along with inflation.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#573

I am an idiot. Would this mean that the time stays as it is right now (after the change from this past weekend)? Because I would love that so much.

My understanding is that that the house has no plans to pick up this senate bill. So this was a purely symbolic vote. Nothing actually happened. This bill has not made it into law and most likely never will

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#574

I will never understand why we change the clock instead of changing our habits. Well, maybe in a time when we didn't have computers it was simpler to just put the clock ahead or behind an hour, but nowadays it creates a ton of complexity for nothing. Isn't it simpler to just shift our times, for example in the summer start to work at 9:00 and in the winter at 8:00? Beside, if we have to choose a time, why not choose…

It is difficult to get every business, school, and workplace to coordinate on changing habits together. If they don't, it causes a lot of problems for a lot of people

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#575
For those of you who are interested in the changing shape of the various timezones, moving to standardised offset, the rise and fall of daylight savings, I wrote a blog on the subject a little while back, "Exploring 120 years of timezones"

https://blog.scottlogic.com/2021/09/14/120-years-timezone.ht...

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#576
Sometimes the ignorance of lawmakers is just baffling.

I mean there is pretty much a scientific consensus as far as I know that switching to permanent DST is a quite unhealthy choice for the larger part of the population, which happen to already be negative affected by other effects also balanced against them.

Just to be clear I don't know if it's worse then DST switching.

But it's worse then permanent "normal" (i.e. winter) time.

I mean there is a reason this was the normal time, before DST was introduced.

I also want to note here that for some areas in some time zones the negative effects of permanent DST might be less then for other areas (potentially) in other time zone, idk. how this applies to the US.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#577

Next up: The metric system? One can dream...

The US has officially been transitioning to the metric system since the 1970's and the metric system is widely used in official capacities throughout the US and the US government.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#578

Watching Americans freak out about post-8AM sunrises is surreal to me. The sun doesn't rise until 8:45 during the darkest times of the year here in the Netherlands and its really not much of an issue. Whether standard time or summer time is the better choice here is something I hold no opinion on, but the sheer hysteria some people here express is very overblown.

That just means that the problem gets worse as the latitude gets farther away from the equator. It may be pretty unavoidable in such places, but why make it pointlessly worse?

Maybe timezones should be based on longitude and DST should be based on latitude?

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#580

Can someone explain why they actually care about this? I always see such strong opinions on it but really, why does it matter to you? Most clocks are digital and change automatically these days and otherwise changing your clocks twice a year is such a minor inconvenience. And whether or not the light should be preferred in the morning or vending is probably a pretty even split. Maybe it’s better to get rid of it (I d…

Because it’s a huge annoyance and wrecks the schedule twice a year of many children, pets, and crontabs.

Yeah but my point is that this is a massive exaggeration. People are acting like a one hour shift in time gives them jet lag when most of them likely adjust their sleep times every weekend and week start anyway without complaint.
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