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US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

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Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#431

Post by Broken_Hippo »

collegeburner wrote: post #388
Smithalicious wrote: post #269

Watching Americans freak out about post-8AM sunrises is surreal to me. The sun doesn't rise until 8:45 during the darkest times of the year here in the Netherlands and its really not much of an issue. Whether standard time or summer time is the better choice here is something I hold no opinion on, but the sheer hysteria some people here express is very overblown.

I guess you're used to it. Making that change for people who were born and raised in early morning sun will probably not be good for them.

I moved from Indiana to Norway. You just get used to it and it isnt a big deal (sunrise is closer to 10am in December, with sunset around 2 or 2:30pm). Folks with winter depression sometimes struggle more here than they did in Indiana, but the doctors are prepared for this.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#432

Post by ddlatham »

thehappypm wrote: post #375
ddlatham wrote: post #360

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

I don’t get this at all. Why would people want the sun to go down in the afternoon? In my time zone it sets at 4:30 part of the year! That’s awful, and sunrise is at around 7:00am. We have way more sun in the morning.

Because the hours of sunlight are limited, and many people prefer having the sun set in the afternoon over having it rise after the day's routine is well under way. Many people prefer it the other way around. There are some inconveniences both ways, but we'll make it work one way or the other.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#433

Post by dqv »

ibejoeb wrote: post #227
thehappypm wrote: post #131

People literally die more because of these changes. Statistically measurable increase in mortality on these days. Save lives, stop changing the clocks.

What are the modalities of these deaths? Are they a result of the time change, or are they coincident to the time change?

A bunch of missed healthcare appointments (not everyone uses their phone to tell the time!) happen after the change and diminishes over the following weeks.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#434

Post by throw0101a »

withzombies wrote: post #311
mdturnerphys wrote: post #146

More info here: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-tha... Important note: "Senator Marco Rubio said after input from airlines and broadcasters that supporters agreed that the change would not take place until November 2023."

The Hill article[1] says it won't go into effect until November 20, 2023. > The proposal would not take effect until Nov. 20, 2023, to give airlines and other transportation industries more time to adjust to the change. But we switch back to standard time on November 5, 2023. Just to get two weeks of that until we switch back to summer time permanently? [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/598314-senate-unanimousl…

> The Hill article[1] says it won't go into effect until November 20, 2023.

Way too soon. Stupidly so IMHO.

I went through the last DST law change, and it took quite a lot of work in many IT areas. Unixes weren't too bad, but there was all the JREs, databases, etc.

And that's not getting into all the embedded and industrial gadgets.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#436

Post by seangrogg »

ddlatham wrote: post #360

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

All I'm going to say is that - after experiencing about a decade of living in AZ and not worrying about toggling time - I'd still be in that camp that support permanently choosing a time.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#437

Post by almog »

Smithalicious wrote: post #269

Watching Americans freak out about post-8AM sunrises is surreal to me. The sun doesn't rise until 8:45 during the darkest times of the year here in the Netherlands and its really not much of an issue. Whether standard time or summer time is the better choice here is something I hold no opinion on, but the sheer hysteria some people here express is very overblown.

It's worth mentioning a satirical essay Benjamin Franklin wrote when he stayed in Paris as part of a diplomatic mission in which he basically chastises the citizens of Paris for not waking up with the sun.

http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/franklin3.html

Here is a quote of how he suggest to change their lazy manners:

"Every morning, as soon as the sun rises, let all the bells in every church be set ringing; and if that is not sufficient?, let cannon be fired in every street, to wake the sluggards effectually, and make them open their eyes to see their true interest."

To me it bears so much resemblance to people's imminent fear of having a late sunrise.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#438

Post by snemvalts »

paxys wrote: post #362
patwolf wrote: post #343

Back in '08 when the US dates of DST changed, I was working on a Java-based enterprise software product with a relatively large install base. It suddenly became known to a lot of customers that timezone tables are part of the JRE, and simply updating the OS wasn't enough to get proper time calculations in Java. It was a very stressful time getting customers with many different versions of Java across dozens of platfo…

Considering how frequently time zones around the world change, any OS or software that doesn't auto update them from a standard list at this point deserves to break.

Even digital watches that would last tens of years without battery changes? (and where BT would consume too much energy)

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#439

Post by runlevel1 »

hbarka wrote: post #263

When do we see this take permanent effect in California? It feels like this has been decided many months ago but why is the implementation in limbo?

Federal law currently allows states to opt out of DST and use permanent Standard Time. It doesn't permit states to use permanent DST.

This is a byproduct of the Uniform Time Act.[^1]

CA's Prop 7 was contingent on federal authorization. CO, WA, OR, and many other states are all waiting on that too.[^2]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Time_Act [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

EDIT: Fixed 2nd link.

Re: US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

#440

Post by defgeneric »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #212

This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. There's a reason why "Standard Time" is called that. Now the words "Midday" and "Midnight" are meaningless. The measurement of time is a science, and science should not be decided by politicians. This seems trivial, but if this, then what next? Edit: I'm getting a lot of replies saying that "midday" isn't precisely the middle of the day, and therefore I am wrong, but even s…

It's not a big deal. The phrase "solar noon will occur at 12:59pm" is perfectly intelligible. The scheduling of human affairs is political. The time shift is completely rational and even points to the fact that we as humans take up nature and put it to work for us. We give it meaning, we humanize nature. There is nothing wrong with this. Nobody is trying to legislate the position of the sun relative to the earth. The terms will retain a perfectly clear meaning in their respective contexts.
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