Welcome to Web 3.0 • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#141

Post by rvz » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:32 AM UTC

JamesMcMinn wrote: post #95

So far I've yet to see a convincing argument for what "Web 3" is and can offer that we can't currently do without the use of a Blockchain. It all seems to boil down to "it'll cost something to do something", which isn't exactly a convincing argument on its own. The responses to this story read rather like Facebook comments on controversial news articles - there's a bunch of comments claiming the website is a bunch of…

> Can anyone give a reasoned argument to the actual benefits of Web 3, in contrast to what is currently not possible without the use of a Blockchain?

Yeah. Why not try donating to NGOs through a bank account if your friend or penpal happens to be stuck in a sanctioned country? [0]

I also don't think merchants and businesses would like to tolerate the knowingly abused chargeback system which friendly fraud hurts both the customer and the merchants.

Cryptocurrencies completely eliminate that abuse. The user can contact the merchant for a refund instead of filing a costly dispute which the final decision always sides with the banks, who doesn't even know if it is friendly fraud or not, but takes the money anyway.

I can see them using it for Stripe or Coinbase Commerce.

[0] https://theintercept.com/2022/01/19/crypto-afghanistan-sanct...

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#142

Post by krageon » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:33 AM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #93

teekert wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No dependence on patreon and their controversial decisions (like banning people)? No more censorship? No more dependence on payment providers? True per minute payment? Near 0 fees?

But now there's a dependency on some blockchain, and almost certainly some kind of centralized money conversion service... the content creator can't turn their fun crypto coins directly into food in their stomach or shelter over their heads.

> almost certainly some kind of centralized money conversion service

Most places have ways to exchange cryptocurrencies offline (using cold wallets), so this is already not the case. If you are lucky you can get a lot of things you need without transferring the money into another currency at all, which is the ideal scenario.

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#143

Post by detaro » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:33 AM UTC

rvz wrote: post #141

JamesMcMinn wrote: post #95

So far I've yet to see a convincing argument for what "Web 3" is and can offer that we can't currently do without the use of a Blockchain. It all seems to boil down to "it'll cost something to do something", which isn't exactly a convincing argument on its own. The responses to this story read rather like Facebook comments on controversial news articles - there's a bunch of comments claiming the website is a bunch of…

> Can anyone give a reasoned argument to the actual benefits of Web 3, in contrast to what is currently not possible without the use of a Blockchain? Yeah. Why not try donating to NGOs through a bank account if your friend or penpal happens to be stuck in a sanctioned country? [0] I also don't think merchants and businesses would like to tolerate the knowingly abused chargeback system which friendly fraud hurts both…

So purely paying with cryptocurrency is now somehow "web"?

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#144

Post by teekert » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:33 AM UTC

qbasic_forever wrote: post #93

teekert wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No dependence on patreon and their controversial decisions (like banning people)? No more censorship? No more dependence on payment providers? True per minute payment? Near 0 fees?

But now there's a dependency on some blockchain, and almost certainly some kind of centralized money conversion service... the content creator can't turn their fun crypto coins directly into food in their stomach or shelter over their heads.

Maybe at some point they can, perhaps I'm being overly idealistic.

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#145

Post by dagw » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:35 AM UTC

rvz wrote: post #141

JamesMcMinn wrote: post #95

So far I've yet to see a convincing argument for what "Web 3" is and can offer that we can't currently do without the use of a Blockchain. It all seems to boil down to "it'll cost something to do something", which isn't exactly a convincing argument on its own. The responses to this story read rather like Facebook comments on controversial news articles - there's a bunch of comments claiming the website is a bunch of…

> Can anyone give a reasoned argument to the actual benefits of Web 3, in contrast to what is currently not possible without the use of a Blockchain? Yeah. Why not try donating to NGOs through a bank account if your friend or penpal happens to be stuck in a sanctioned country? [0] I also don't think merchants and businesses would like to tolerate the knowingly abused chargeback system which friendly fraud hurts both…

I can do all those things with Web 2.0 (or even 1.0).

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#146

Post by basisword » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:36 AM UTC

lpcvoid wrote: post #136

basisword wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be two reasons: - Crypto is destroying the planet (it's not). A lot of people get irrationally mad about anything that causes any damage to the environment these days. Climate change is an incredibly important issue but the activism side of it is filled with a lot of crazy people and they've latched on to 'crypto' as bad when most don't know a thing about it. - Jealousy. A lot of people got very lucky a…

I wouldn't be so adamant about cryptocurrencies crap if they would just do their thing and be quiet about it. But everything ever built by that scene needs to somehow make or cost money in some form or another, and that's a telling sign for me. Also, most cryptocurrencies in fact do commit towards warming up the planet for no benefit at all. Don't know why you deny this.

>> I wouldn't be so adamant about cryptocurrencies crap if they would just do their thing and be quiet about it.

Why do people need to be quiet for you? There's plenty of media I don't want to read and I don't read it. I don't try to silence it because it upsets me.

>> everything ever built by that scene needs to somehow make or cost money in some form or another, and that's a telling sign for me.

Making money directly by creating or building something was the norm until we started paying for it with our data. Paying for things directly and compensating creators doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

>> Also, most cryptocurrencies in fact do commit towards warming up the planet for no benefit at all. Don't know why you deny this.

I don't deny it but it's much more nuanced than that. As a society we do A LOT of unnecessary things which contribute to global warming and we don't get upset about them. Get off your computer. Stop watching TV. Stop using electricity. We could all get upset at each other or we could work towards solutions that solve the problem and allow us to maintain our current lifestyles with only minor modifications. The people screaming that crypto causes climate change are the same people who think the trees they're planting are the solution to it. In reality it's a much more complex problem that's going to be solved by the people that are too busy working on the possible solutions to waste time screaming. It's not black and white.

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#147

Post by cmckn » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:37 AM UTC

basisword wrote: post #118

bibabaloo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vehement shilling against anything blockchain related is something I still don't really get. Sure, I get it, you don't like blockchain. But this website would've taken a bit of effort to put together, and for what? To shit on something the author doesn't like? What's the author trying to get out of making something like this?

There seem to be two reasons: - Crypto is destroying the planet (it's not). A lot of people get irrationally mad about anything that causes any damage to the environment these days. Climate change is an incredibly important issue but the activism side of it is filled with a lot of crazy people and they've latched on to 'crypto' as bad when most don't know a thing about it. - Jealousy. A lot of people got very lucky a…

> A lot of people got very lucky and very rich through crypto. They have so much ETH that can spend the equivalent of a persons expected lifetime earnings on a picture of a monkey.

The word “equivalent” is doing a lot of work here; because if what you purchased was the nominal “rights” to a URL that may or may not 404 at any moment, you haven’t done anything worthy of jealousy.

Also, at the risk of breaking the HN rules on allegations of astroturfing: the whole narrative of “regular joes got super rich off this” is as turfy as it gets. I’ve looked at wallet balances, I understand a handful of these people exist. But I’ve never met one, and I doubt you have either. Some people win the lottery, too; I’m not losing sleep over it.

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#148

Post by legutierr » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:39 AM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #122

legutierr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to share control of that data with me—and say that the data represents something valuable (or is itself valuable somehow) and we don’t really trust each other not to tamper with it—then the classic “single server hosting data on the internet” doesn’t really do the trick. If the number of people needing to collaborate is arbitrarily large, and includes people who don’t know each other and don’t trust each…

Or just use certificate signing.

It’s notable that all blockchain systems use cryptographic signatures to authenticate state transitions.

But how do cryptographic signatures protect you from surreptitious deletions?

On their own, they do not. They are a necessary, but insufficient part of the solution.

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#149

Post by MrMan » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:41 AM UTC

anhner wrote: post #48

birracerveza wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the reason we have paywalls and ads crammed into every single square inch of screen estate and websites treating users as the product. And you tell me that isn't broken? I'd be glad to pay a penny (or a fraction of it) for each comment on HN or whatever and have it fund the network (server hosting, staff, etc). Much better than the current alternative.

>I'd be glad to pay a penny (or a fraction of it) for each comment on HN or whatever and have it fund the network (server hosting, staff, etc). Much better than the current alternative. Really? You'd prefer to pay for every single interaction on the web rather than be served an ad that you can block by the way anytime? What about people that don't have the luxury to throw away their money like that, should the intern…

web3 is for the rich. can you get rich catering only to the wealthy? perhaps, if web3 also has a mechanism to perpetually tax the poor. something needs to keep trade flowing into their trade bloc. as it stands web3, if it were a country, would have. negative trade balance and no GPD (except for fees paid to miners and exchanges)

Re: Welcome to Web 3.0

#150

Post by basisword » Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:41 AM UTC

cmckn wrote: post #147

basisword wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be two reasons: - Crypto is destroying the planet (it's not). A lot of people get irrationally mad about anything that causes any damage to the environment these days. Climate change is an incredibly important issue but the activism side of it is filled with a lot of crazy people and they've latched on to 'crypto' as bad when most don't know a thing about it. - Jealousy. A lot of people got very lucky a…

> A lot of people got very lucky and very rich through crypto. They have so much ETH that can spend the equivalent of a persons expected lifetime earnings on a picture of a monkey. The word “equivalent” is doing a lot of work here; because if what you purchased was the nominal “rights” to a URL that may or may not 404 at any moment, you haven’t done anything worthy of jealousy. Also, at the risk of breaking the HN ru…

>> The word “equivalent” is doing a lot of work here; because if what you purchased was the nominal rights to a URL that may or may not 404 at any moment, you haven’t done anything worthy of jealousy.

Maybe I'm not explaining it clearly enough. The jealousy isn't that you've been rich enough to buy a picture of a monkey. It's that you have so much 'money' that you can spend it on something so stupid and not even care. And the fact that you've gotten that money by doing something so seemingly stupid and worthless in the first place. That's pretty infuriating for a lot of people.

I also didn't mention 'regular joes'.