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What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> b) The transition to agriculture (which triggered the technology explosion) took a long period of luck, including groups of people living in a floodplain for a long enough time to breed plants that were suitable for agriculture. Note that this was an extremely rare thing, in that it probably only happened ~4-5 times in human history and spread everywhere else. The accepted origins of agriculture keep fluctuating, b…

Göbekli Tepe actually proves that highly organized cities are a lot older than agriculture itself. More broadly, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that civilization - at least as in highly developed cities allowing for trade, exchange, production of material goods and even creation of impressive stone monuments - is in fact older than was previously thought. Many of those unknown civilizations may been affecte…

In general, I would hazard that our reconstruction of Paleolithic and Mesolithic societies is sketchy at best.

Another potential issue is that some of our understanding of Paleolithic societies comes from observation of modern hunter-gatherer societies, which exist in a context where they've been pushed off of any agriculturally productive land. I'll point out that cereal crops require substantial processing to be made edible, unlike things like berries or meat which can be eaten at point of collection, so... if cereal crops are the founder crops of agriculture, we had to know how to process them to edibility well before modern agriculture gets under way. When did that happen, and how widespread was it compared to other food sources?

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#32
I flew to Alaska, and drove down to BC. Before I went I was expecting Alaska to be a desolate place. Alaska is actually pretty developed. Lots of commercial activity, with power lines and trucks going from place to place. I would compare it to Northern Ontario.

When I drove down through Yukon, literally drove for hours without seeing any signs of humans other than the road. Very pristine environment from what I remember. Beautiful little lakes surrounded by forests. And crazy washboard roads that weave up and down due to freeze / thaw cycles. If Nuclear WWIII happens, this might be where humans survive. If I ever wanted to be a hermit, I know where to go.

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#33
post #14

What puzzles me about ancient humans is they were as smart as we are, so why did technology advance so slowly?

How do we know they were as smart as we are?

An axiom of every discussion you'll ever have is that all populations have exactly the same mean and standard deviation for every single measurable psychological trait that you can think of.

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#35

What puzzles me about ancient humans is they were as smart as we are, so why did technology advance so slowly?

As I understand it, this is an open question, but one explanation has a few factors: a) In the absence of many external pressures, hunting and gathering is actually a reasonably low-effort and flexible lifestyle. From a moment-to-moment perspective, agriculture (and our "technological" world) mostly doesn't seem like an improvement. Long-term, the quality-of-life improvements come about in resiliency and stability, b…

So why was mankind perfectly satisfied with stasis for tens of thousands of years and then suddenly decide to get their proverbial shit together and become relentless and driven ~6000 years ago?

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American peoples split off from the Asian peoples 25,000 years ago, and are the same intelligence today. That would seem unlikely unless they were the same then as today.

Asians are smarter though

Not enough to be considered a different species.

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#37

What puzzles me about ancient humans is they were as smart as we are, so why did technology advance so slowly?

Advancement in science & tech needs curiosity, critical & independent thinking and most importantly ability to change mind when data says that you were wrong.

These are precisely the things which religion (organised or otherwise) has suppressed for thousands of years.

The most important factor in advancement of sciences came because of: separation of the state and religion. When this happened it still took few centuries where rational thinking was accepted in ruling class. From this point it was really the case of one idea leads to another.

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#38

What puzzles me about ancient humans is they were as smart as we are, so why did technology advance so slowly?

My thesis is that it's a mixture of a few things:

a) Underappreciation of what things require technological advancements. Imagine being a [1] first person to discover that you can turn certain grasses into dough that can be cooked into bread... and you can't turn other grasses into that dough. That kind of person could well have been the Lavoisier of their day. Yet today, that's the kind of skill passed down from parent to child as the most pedestrian thing ever.

b) Bootstrapping effect. A lot of technology requires itself to be built, whether it's a compiler to compile your compiler, or a kiln to bake the bricks to make your kiln. In the inverse of this effect, until you build up enough infrastructure to use your technology to perpetuate itself, it might not be appreciated that it's worthwhile to do so--I'm reminded of the anecdote that Dijkstra once chastised a student for wasting precious computer time running an assembler program.

c) Societal effects of smaller, nomadic societies. If you're small, you run a greater risk of knowledge simply dying out; information loss rates were probably much higher 20,000 years ago than today. Similarly, a nomadic society is probably less willing to invest in infrastructure (like, say, kilns) that isn't readily able to move with them, and this will retard certain technological development.

It's just a thesis, though; I don't really have any hard evidence for anything, just thought experiments.

[1] As I mentioned elsewhere, this is probably an example of something that was independently invented several times.

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#39

What puzzles me about ancient humans is they were as smart as we are, so why did technology advance so slowly?

It’s a question that thinkers have wondered about for a long time.

Argument IV against the eternity of the world:

"Yes, Sir, The late Invention of Arts, and the Shortness of the History of the World, are invincible Arguments against its Eternity. If the World was from Eternity, you must needs make them an eternal Race of the most stupid Blockheads imaginable, without the least Drachm almost of Wit, or Contrivance, or indeed common Sense; and that none of these Qualification ever were known in the World, till within these two or three thousand Years last past."

William Nichols, "A Conference with a Theist" (1696)

https://archive.org/details/aconferencewith00nichgoog/page/4...

Re: What were humans doing in the Yukon 24,000 years ago?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, this is an open question, but one explanation has a few factors: a) In the absence of many external pressures, hunting and gathering is actually a reasonably low-effort and flexible lifestyle. From a moment-to-moment perspective, agriculture (and our "technological" world) mostly doesn't seem like an improvement. Long-term, the quality-of-life improvements come about in resiliency and stability, b…

Both the Americas and Eur-Asia seem to have independently invented agriculture, and it didn't seem to lead to a technological explosion until looong afterwards. Selective breeding was not required for early agriculture. That came later. I'm sure agriculture started with "hey we like strawberries, strawberries grow from seeds, let's plant the seeds and have more strawberries" for each of the plants they gathered.

Planting the seeds of the plants you eat is selective breeding.
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