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Firefox removed Yandex search option

bugzilla.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#171

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

stu2b50 wrote: post #102
dotcoma wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they really need all that money? They could perhaps get good money, even if considerably less, from DDG.

Well, yes. It’s almost all of their annual revenue and Mozilla already had huge layoffs[0], so presumably they’re not exactly on amazing footing financially. Duckduckgo could not provide anything near that much - ddg has 100m in annual revenue and Google is giving 500m to Mozilla. 5x their entire company’s annual revenue. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363424/mozilla-layoffs-...

If an organisation can be in financial trouble with an annual income of half a billion then it's poorly run. That's ample resources even for something as complex as a browser.

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#172

Post by ogurechny »

bastawhiz wrote: post #143
ogurechny wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not “just not included”, it was removed for everyone, no matter whether they wanted to use it or not. Maybe lizardmen from Mozilla are so detached they consider that all users just suck up and eat what's on the plate today, but some regular people use Yandex search because they have mail there, keep themselves logged in, have configured other services, need something for their work daily, yada yada. So they op…

OpenSearch is a standard. Visit Yandex in Firefox today, and you'll see Firefox happily offer to add Yandex to your search dropdown. The green plus shows you that it's an option. https://imgur.com/BVlfEIz It's also in the right click menu for the address bar. Why does Mozilla need to include Yandex as a default option?

I know that. The whole thing started for me today when I advised a user on some web forum this exact way of bringing it back. Then, out of interest, I dug into the code and the bug tracker, only to find that absolutely nothing was stated about the changes, even though they have been cooking for a month¹. My first real browser was steel-gray Mozilla Suite, back then I opened as many forum topics in tabs as it was possible during a free promotional 5 minute modem connection.

The problem is not inclusion by default, the problem is unwarranted unconditional removal, whether it is default or not, and whether it is needed or not. Mozilla has decided the pretend it happened “by itself”, but it was their decision, and they had an option to switch people to non-sponsored Yandex search.

¹) http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://support.mozilla.org/en-...

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#174

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

asveikau wrote: post #112
BirAdam wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, by your moral standard, the entire Earth should have isolated the US economy when the US government/military was killing Iraqi and Afghani civilians and destroying non-military targets, right? The entire planet should also be isolating Saudi Arabia for its genocidal war in Yemen? These things are done without the consent of the governed, and these things are often done without even the knowledge of the general pu…

Whataboutism. I did not agree with the Iraq war but it doesn't justify the current conflict. The US political system did also make an eventual course correction on Iraq. Eg. Republicans lost the congress in 2006 mostly as a result of that. George W. Bush was term limited out of office. The next proposed unnecessary invasions will probably be greeted by politicians not wanting to repeat Iraq. That is slow progress but…

So if there are Russians who don't agree with the war (there are) and if Russia eventually makes a course correction (it will) then they're off the hook, right?

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#175

Post by zmmmmm »

thbw wrote: post #162

Throwaway for obvious reasons. This is hypocrisy of Western democracy. I can't recall when Google was removed after US invaded so many countries. Why do Western companies oppress free speech when it doesn't match their narrative (Julian Assange, now Russian media)? Why not give Russian "propaganda" tell its narratives and let people decide? Are you afraid of their truth/"truth" or are you afraid people will follow th…

I think there are a lot of moral compromises, contradictions, and hypocrisy as you outline.

However, the alternative to throwing everything non-violent at Russia, is actual military intervention. Essentially, very high risk of real WW3.

The Iraq invasion was a huge mistake. Russia's invading Ukraine is a huge mistake. Generally, war is a huge mistake.

If there is anything non-violent left to try, I can't blame anybody for trying that. This is one tiny, tiny small thing.

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#176

Post by rvz »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #65
kevingadd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does crypto fix this? The problem is not with their claim that this is a vulnerability - people have been shouting about this vulnerability long before crypto was invented - the problem is the claim that they will somehow fix this with tokens or DAOs

It allows for decentralized payment systems. The problem is that the downsides so far make it not worth it, usually.

> The problem is that the downsides so far make it not worth it, usually.

How so?

Could you please elaborate? We already know that Bitcoin and Ethereum are not the only cryptocurrencies that exist for payments and there are better ones that are used for payments.

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#177

Post by thway0987 »

asveikau wrote: post #142
nelsondev wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

That's correct. And we can't draw false equivalences either; we should consider the scale of the wrong. For example, I would consider loss of life to be quite a bit worse than loss of Yandex.

We should indeed. But we shouldn't use that to justify, excuse or dismiss any wrongs done that isn't at the scale of other wrongs.

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#178

Post by ribosometronome »

thbw wrote: post #162

Throwaway for obvious reasons. This is hypocrisy of Western democracy. I can't recall when Google was removed after US invaded so many countries. Why do Western companies oppress free speech when it doesn't match their narrative (Julian Assange, now Russian media)? Why not give Russian "propaganda" tell its narratives and let people decide? Are you afraid of their truth/"truth" or are you afraid people will follow th…

In general, it sounds like you're suggesting that if everyone can't be punished for doing something bad, no one should be. I'm not sure that logic would really fly with other situations. Ex. A murderer was able to flee to a country without an extradition treaty, so punishing Jeffrey Dahmer would be hypocritical.

The US being less likely to do things like, you know, lie about biological weapons as a pretense for an invasion of a country that murders tens to hundreds of thousands of innocents and destabilizes an already not-so-stable part of the world would be a good thing. That the rest of the world wasn't able to rally together at the time to say "Yo, not cool" doesn't mean that they wouldn't have been right to. That it didn't happen then doesn't mean it shouldn't happen next time. Or now, in the case of Russia re: Ukraine.

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#179

Post by iorrus »

fortnum wrote: post #100

Have been a strong(!) advocate for Firefox for years. Now it is time to switch. Not sure where to yet, Chrome is not any better, Palemoon is not exactly well supported. Maybe Brave, Vivaldi, or Opera, though they are all Chrome-based as well. Difficult decision and not very happy about it, as I do think we need more than just one browser engine, but I can't support Mozilla any more.

I moved to brave when they made that blog post [1]. I’m very happy although I agree it’s better to have competition in the browser space.

I’ve also moved to brave search recently after DuckDuckGo announced they were downgrading Russian sites. I might try Yandex too as I don’t like the brave search layout.

[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplat...

Re: Firefox removed Yandex search option

#180

Post by Paianni »

thbw wrote: post #162

Throwaway for obvious reasons. This is hypocrisy of Western democracy. I can't recall when Google was removed after US invaded so many countries. Why do Western companies oppress free speech when it doesn't match their narrative (Julian Assange, now Russian media)? Why not give Russian "propaganda" tell its narratives and let people decide? Are you afraid of their truth/"truth" or are you afraid people will follow th…

The world isn't that simple.
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