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Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

picower.mit.edu

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Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#81
post #73
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could say a lot more about this, but this would slip into what people would consider as woo. So without treading there, I am just going to say, I think this field-effect of neurons will lead to discoveries about field-effect of all cells, not just neurons; that consciousness is not exclusive to neurons; and how acupuncture (at a mechanical level) might work.

There is quite a good deal of literature out there suggesting that acupuncture operates via electricity, FWIW.

Can you provide any references to said literature?

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#83

This paper makes a lot of sense. As a doc, I've seen literally several hundred patients with portions of their brain removed or damaged, some of them very extensive (>20% of the brain). Yet many are completely asymptomatic, and many others regain full function and memory with time and physical therapy. It's led me to conclude that the function of the brain isn't tied 1:1 to the structure of the brain as we had all be…

As five-year survival rate has been improved during cancer patients, we have seen more and more patients with multiple brain tumors. Recently we got awarded a NIH grant on a multi brain tumor SRS treatment platform. This might not be directly related with surgery of removal portion of the brain, but definitely SRS will act just like surgery (but with radiation).

This month we are actually asked by NIH to have an interview program to talk with people who are interested in SRS, so in case you are interested in our project, you could schedule a 20-mins quick meeting with me at your convenience:

https://calendly.com/hao-jiang-1/nih-i-corp-customer-discove...

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#84
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true, blind people are only considered disabled because of sighted people. I am not sure this is the convincing argument you think it is, however.

There is a very well-articulated argument by an autistic woman that, the clinical definitions for autism are framed from the disruption and impact to neurotypical society, but does not adequately address what’s going on for the autistic person. For example, the author herself is diagnosed with high-functioning autism. Her social impact on others is miminal enough where it qualifies for “high functioning”, but having…

I think it'd be reasonable to say that if humans didn't have eyes (and didn't have any other sensory enhancements beyond what sighted humans have today), and then a new human was born with eyes, that new human would be strictly "better off" than the old humans without eyes. Certainly the new human wouldn't say the old humans were "disabled", but at the very least, the new human would not have trouble communicating with the old humans, or doing anything that the old humans could do.

But if everyone were autistic (as we define it today), and then someone was born that we would consider "neurotypical" (in this world, of course, they would be neurodivergent!), then that "non-autistic" person would probably be at a huge disadvantage (socially) in that society, so it'd be reasonable to call that person "disabled", even though we'd consider that person typical.

So yes, "disabled" is just a term we use to describe people in the minority, who have some sort of condition (physical or mental) that could confer a disadvantage upon them in our current society.

So to your statement:

> I too, thought the idea that “autistic people are disabled because neurotypical people considers autism is a disability” was not very convincing.

I've never really thought about it that way. My understanding would be more like "autistic people are disabled because their condition puts them at a disadvantage when interacting with the neurotypical world". And I think that jives with how we should think about disability: it's something that makes it harder for someone to interact (physically, socially, etc.) with the world as it is. We may try to make the world easier on disabled people -- ramps for those who cannot walk, audible signals for those who cannot see, attempts to change how we communicate with those who are neurodivergent -- but at the end of the day those people still have a disability, as there will always be parts of the world that they'll be unable to navigate the way a "non-disabled" person could.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#85
post #41

I died and was brought back to life. Still have memories. Did I just debunk the paper?

Presumably you were resuscitated before the electrical activity in your brain stopped? My understanding is that's how we define brain death, as the cessation of electrical activity in the brain.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#86

This paper makes a lot of sense. As a doc, I've seen literally several hundred patients with portions of their brain removed or damaged, some of them very extensive (>20% of the brain). Yet many are completely asymptomatic, and many others regain full function and memory with time and physical therapy. It's led me to conclude that the function of the brain isn't tied 1:1 to the structure of the brain as we had all be…

I think it's also interesting to figure out what exactly is memory. I don't know anything about medical research but my gut feeling is that memory is more of a "feeling" than concrete snapshots such as computer memory.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no upward development of life. We think we’re super clever and advanced for building cars and lightbulbs and such, but there’s nothing beyond us saying that’s good or praiseworthy. Looking at our impact on biodiversity, the atmosphere, and the oceans, and throw in a huge dose of micro plastics and rogue hormones in the water supply and we don’t look so clever. Evolution improves fitness for reproduction, ther…

> There’s no upward development of life. Disagree. Look at our solar system or any other planet. There is no life anywhere. This beautiful blue planet is brimming with life. Yes we are screwing our planet but that is because we as collective have not become fully conscious about it. There were horrific things done in past by humanity but once a sufficient amount of population reached that point of consciousness where…

I don't think that's the point the parent was trying to make. We've evolved intelligence presumably because it was selected for as a trait that made it more likely we'd survive and reproduce. That doesn't mean we're any more "upward" than any other species on the planet that does an equally good job surviving and reproducing.

Yes, we've defined human evolution as "upward" as opposed to other life on Earth, but that's purely our self-description, not anything inherently true about the universe.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#88
post #41

I died and was brought back to life. Still have memories. Did I just debunk the paper?

You have a point. Medically induced coma such as with pentobarbital can “flatline” the brain, eliminating electrical fields. After weaning the pentobarbital patients have their memories intact.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#89
post #19

this reminds of a brain fart I had long time ago back when I was taking an EE course about electromagnetic compatibility & interference. how resilient is the brain and it's surrounding casing to outside electromagnetic interference ? can there one day be some jamming tool strong enough to just crash a brain without doing physical damage first ? where it would just brick a human, but a physician examining it would fin…

Reminds me of this article, where spies abroad all suffer similar strange headaches, impacting their ability to focus.

Perhaps your “hypothetical” bioweapon is already being tested in the field.

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/10/27/cia-officer-visits-mosco...

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#90
post #82

what's the data storage capacity of this sort of electric field(s)?

Does there have to be a persistence layer if the machine is never shutdown?

If all our memories are stored in “RAM” and never flushed to “disk”, we may never find evidence of “disk”.

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