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Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

picower.mit.edu

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Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#21

Post by anothernewdude »

noasaservice wrote: post #7
hosh wrote: post #2

There was a story I heard about the autistic guy who volunteered for transcranial magnetic stimulation. Those have been known to temporarily shift someone autistic into a consciousness state that is more neurotypical. In his case (and it is the only documented case), it was permanent. He wrote a book about it. His marriage ended because of it (he had been a reliable emotional support for his wife while autistic), but…

That only strengthens my theory that why most of the autistics and neurodivergent people are considered disabled is because of neurotypicals. When a ND isn't precise with their words, expect us to read into context, and then get angry when we don't understand - that's on them, not us.

That's because language is built on imprecision and context. It's a feature of language.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#22

Post by iszomer »

anothernewdude wrote: post #20
hackerbee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment immediately reminded me of Marvin the paranoid android from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

That always bothered me. He wasn't paranoid, he was depressed.

Depressed by design.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#23

Post by hosh »

syspec wrote: post #6
hosh wrote: post #2

There was a story I heard about the autistic guy who volunteered for transcranial magnetic stimulation. Those have been known to temporarily shift someone autistic into a consciousness state that is more neurotypical. In his case (and it is the only documented case), it was permanent. He wrote a book about it. His marriage ended because of it (he had been a reliable emotional support for his wife while autistic), but…

Do you have a link or some key words I could use to try and find that story?

I found this: https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/150161/experimental-treatme...

It wasn’t the article I read, but that should have a lot of leads.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#24

Post by hosh »

timdiggerm wrote: post #17
noasaservice wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only strengthens my theory that why most of the autistics and neurodivergent people are considered disabled is because of neurotypicals. When a ND isn't precise with their words, expect us to read into context, and then get angry when we don't understand - that's on them, not us.

It's true, blind people are only considered disabled because of sighted people. I am not sure this is the convincing argument you think it is, however.

There is a very well-articulated argument by an autistic woman that, the clinical definitions for autism are framed from the disruption and impact to neurotypical society, but does not adequately address what’s going on for the autistic person.

For example, the author herself is diagnosed with high-functioning autism. Her social impact on others is miminal enough where it qualifies for “high functioning”, but having executive dysfunction means she is highly dependent on someone in her life to help her. Our medical and social system does not provide adequate services because she is “high functioning”.

She then talked about other people with a different blend of autistic traits who are considered low functioning (high impact on neurotypical social interactions), but don’t have the executive dysfunction like the author. Her example was someone who is non-verbal, yet has a well-developed intellect.

I too, thought the idea that “autistic people are disabled because neurotypical people considers autism is a disability” was not very convincing. This author’s argument reframed it in a way that makes more sense to me, and that is, us neurotypicals are only seeing autism only from the lens of how autism impacts us, and we frame the discussion, diagnoses, and public policies along those lines.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#25

Post by hosh »

phaedrus wrote: post #3
hosh wrote: post #2

There was a story I heard about the autistic guy who volunteered for transcranial magnetic stimulation. Those have been known to temporarily shift someone autistic into a consciousness state that is more neurotypical. In his case (and it is the only documented case), it was permanent. He wrote a book about it. His marriage ended because of it (he had been a reliable emotional support for his wife while autistic), but…

This is interesting because I recently read of a theory that clinical depression is actually an altered state of consciousness, like dreaming or being under the influence of psychedelic drugs. It seems to explain a lot about depression as well as posing the question what other things might be an altered state of consciousness. I predict if we're successful in creating general AI and/or artificial consciousness, we'll…

I could say a lot more about this, but this would slip into what people would consider as woo.

So without treading there, I am just going to say, I think this field-effect of neurons will lead to discoveries about field-effect of all cells, not just neurons; that consciousness is not exclusive to neurons; and how acupuncture (at a mechanical level) might work.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#27

Post by mateo1 »

Although it is a very interesting paper, and I am by no means qualified to even understand half of it, while reading up representational drift I was much more convinced by another (and a bit more recent) paper portraying the phenomenon as a way for the brain to switch up the physical layout of the firing neurons in a redundant population without altering the output. All that possibly for biological reasons (ie dead neurons or perhaps repairs). Saying information is stored in electrical fields just doesn't sit right with me. I have a hard time imagining them being more robust than spikes, or really usable inside the brain because of the physics involved.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#29

Post by plutonorm »

phaedrus wrote: post #3
hosh wrote: post #2

There was a story I heard about the autistic guy who volunteered for transcranial magnetic stimulation. Those have been known to temporarily shift someone autistic into a consciousness state that is more neurotypical. In his case (and it is the only documented case), it was permanent. He wrote a book about it. His marriage ended because of it (he had been a reliable emotional support for his wife while autistic), but…

This is interesting because I recently read of a theory that clinical depression is actually an altered state of consciousness, like dreaming or being under the influence of psychedelic drugs. It seems to explain a lot about depression as well as posing the question what other things might be an altered state of consciousness. I predict if we're successful in creating general AI and/or artificial consciousness, we'll…

All thoughts are altered states of consciousness. A collection of self reinforcing thoughts that represent an instance of depression are a state of consciousness in the same way that experiencing sun on your skin is a state of consciousness. All is qualia and we move between states of qualia like fish through an ocean.

Re: Electric fields, not individual neurons, may hold information in memory: study

#30

Post by plutonorm »

whatshisface wrote: post #15
noasaservice wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only strengthens my theory that why most of the autistics and neurodivergent people are considered disabled is because of neurotypicals. When a ND isn't precise with their words, expect us to read into context, and then get angry when we don't understand - that's on them, not us.

NTs can either read in to context or willfully ignore it (choose to act as if they haven't noticed), while autistic people always have to act without that information. It is kind of like wheelchairs and ramps - people who can climb stairs are strictly better off than people who can only go up ramps, but a society with ramps isn't any less capable than one where you have to climb a ladder to get to your office.

I disagree, that tuning into detail and avoidance of the context allows more brain power to be applied to the detail.
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