The clear suggestion is that it is Russia doing it. Other than as an f-u, I don’t understand why they would though. If I have an effective weapon (GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences. So eg say NATO were overreliant on GPS, incidents of spoofing like this will cause them to rethink and reduce that reliance, or harden the system.
Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
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Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#72Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just parroting the word "shower thought" isn't making any effect here. How about presenting an opposite view instead?
Their entire recent comment history is contrarian “maybe the Ukrainians are Nazis, maybe they aren’t, how can anyone know”, “the Soviet Union mostly did good things”, etc. This is either a victim of Russian propaganda, or an agent of Russian propaganda. As to the presented ideas in the talk - as someone who knows Russia well, speaks Russian, has Russian family, he’s spot on - but no Russian will ever agree , because…
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#74Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#75> GPS spoofing is hard to stop because the signal the satellites emit from low-Earth orbit to potentially add encryption and certificates cannot be changed. Why ? I thought the military GPS signals were encrypted. They could make a new GPS version on a new frequency with at least crypto signed messages. We can’t have such a flaw on the protocol forever.
I'm sure this is true in the sense that general publications use "encrypted" to mean, "There was some sort of cryptographic stuff involved and it went over my head" rather than actually encrypted. Like they do when they tell you that the passwords stolen in a breach were "encrypted with bcrypt" for example.
The key thing to pay attention to here is that unlike say, TLS, this is not a conversation. A GPS receiver is just that, a receiver passively observing the signals. You would usually "bend" GPS by relaying signals from somewhere or somewhen else, and the passive receiver concludes that it must be where the signals it is receiving seem to suggest it is.
Take an easy scenario, imagine I'm in a warehouse that has been designed as a Faraday cage. You've fit a handful of transmitters to the warehouse, and you play back a recording of GPS signals received three weeks ago in the desert outside Las Vegas.
How does my GPS receiver know (using some hypothetical "encrypted military signal") that it isn't in fact near Las Vegas three weeks ago? That's what the signals seem to suggest and there is literally no contradictory data available.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
You start by "suggesting Russians are playing a rational game..." but literally the next sentence is condescending western rhetoric. We don't know the strategy and the plan. We might, even maybe reasonably, deduce that Russian leadership thought that Ucrain would fall more quickly. And that some form of stable solution would be the result. But most people don't only have one plan to reach a longer term strategic goal…
Don't delude yourself and others. Wars of aggression are the prelude to world wars and mass scale violence.
Unilaterally declaring other insane or crazy or anything like that, while making ourselves feel good and superior, doesn't help in understanding why people act like they do.
And understanding might help in finding better ways to act and reach common goals like reducing the number of people suffering in the Ucraine right now.
Take the Nuremberg trials for example. As a German emotionally I think more people should have been trialed. More punished by hanging. Especially the SS troops managing the concentration camps. And while it would probably have felt like righteous punishment of these crazy evil German Nazi Bastards it probably would not have helped in building a stable western democracy in at least one part of Germany.
That is the reason I tey to think in understanding the motives and thought processes of people involved. Not to delude myself or argue for the deeds of Putin to be less than the despicable acts of war they are.
Putin should clearly be tried as the war criminal he is. Together with the ruling elite. But that doesn't make my need to understand go away.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Suggesting Russians are playing a rational game here? I think the cover has been pulled on the Russian "master strategy".. it's literally a hierarchy of terror and lies, where everyone will do whatever it takes to please the irrational autocrat. I have been spamming this lecture everywhere since the war started and again I think anyone who's still questioning the Russian operative reality should watch it: Evaluation…
Even though plan A (rapid victory) appears to have failed, there is still a rational plan B: carve out the eastern and southern portions Putin wants, leave the rest of the country a smouldering ruin which will cost the west $1tn in aid to rebuild.
Why the west? Sanctions against Russia should stay on place until they agree to pay for the reparations.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#78> GPS spoofing is hard to stop because the signal the satellites emit from low-Earth orbit to potentially add encryption and certificates cannot be changed. Why ? I thought the military GPS signals were encrypted. They could make a new GPS version on a new frequency with at least crypto signed messages. We can’t have such a flaw on the protocol forever.
> I thought the military GPS signals were encrypted I'm sure this is true in the sense that general publications use "encrypted" to mean, "There was some sort of cryptographic stuff involved and it went over my head" rather than actually encrypted. Like they do when they tell you that the passwords stolen in a breach were "encrypted with bcrypt" for example. The key thing to pay attention to here is that unlike say,…
Wouldn't it be possible to embed a clock in a GPS receiver that gets used when decrypting the packets it receives? So instead of just receiving a encrypted packet and trusting it, it'll decrypt it and check when the message was from and if the slew is more than ~1 minute or whatever, then it is probably forged.
That would at least prevent the scenario that you're describing, but since I don't know enough about GPS, it probably introduces other problems.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#79> GPS spoofing is hard to stop because the signal the satellites emit from low-Earth orbit to potentially add encryption and certificates cannot be changed. Why ? I thought the military GPS signals were encrypted. They could make a new GPS version on a new frequency with at least crypto signed messages. We can’t have such a flaw on the protocol forever.
> I thought the military GPS signals were encrypted I'm sure this is true in the sense that general publications use "encrypted" to mean, "There was some sort of cryptographic stuff involved and it went over my head" rather than actually encrypted. Like they do when they tell you that the passwords stolen in a breach were "encrypted with bcrypt" for example. The key thing to pay attention to here is that unlike say,…
Ie sign the current data package plus the current time. Receivers ignore everything with an incorrect timestamp and/or wrong signature.
Now you only have to make sure that you don't lose your private keys.
Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Suggesting Russians are playing a rational game here? I think the cover has been pulled on the Russian "master strategy".. it's literally a hierarchy of terror and lies, where everyone will do whatever it takes to please the irrational autocrat. I have been spamming this lecture everywhere since the war started and again I think anyone who's still questioning the Russian operative reality should watch it: Evaluation…
Well, it might be so but what's the point in Russia pissing off Finland while a good chunk of its forces is dedicated to the war in Ukraine? They're irrational but surely going "Let's start a war on TWO fronts!" is a step too far even for them?