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To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

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Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#21

Post by hungryforcodes »

riidom wrote: post #20
hungryforcodes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I know this is a US article -- but in Canada as a kid my library used to sell "old books" that were too worn to keep in circulation for a nominal fee. Often sold garage sale style once a year. You could get a $10 book for $0.25 or something. As a kid I'd always make a list of books I read and wanted and wait each year to see if I could find some of them there.

Have you been tempted to speed up the "worn out"-factor a bit? It's (was) same here in germany, and I thought of doing so as a kid, but then didn't because books shall be treated well :)

Haha, I don't think I was that enterprising yet at that age -- but I did "forget" to return one or two I was fond of.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#22

Post by agalunar »

8bitsrule wrote: post #7

Hands off the libraries, pal. If you need a straw-they for your 'thought exercise', go ahead and use 'sports stadiums', I don't care then. Of course 'the west' IS still building lots of stadiums. [ https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/the-10-newest-stadiums-... ] Panem et circenses. (Dick was right.)

Did you read the article? If anything, the author is arguing in favor of libraries. I may be misinterpreting your comment, though.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#23

Post by TaylorAlexander »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #4

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go there and read the books for free or some small fee. False premise: Most librairies in the United States were funded and built by private philanthropy. See: Carnegie Library >"Sometimes you can even take the books to your home!"– Now imagine libraries didn’t exist…

> Rather, technology has slowly but surely rendered the storage of dead trees as obsolete in all but a few circumstances.

It is my understanding that libraries serve as much more than storage places, but as community hubs. For example for many people the library is the primary place to use computers and access the internet.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#24

Post by [deleted] »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #23
Dracophoenix wrote: post #4

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go there and read the books for free or some small fee. False premise: Most librairies in the United States were funded and built by private philanthropy. See: Carnegie Library >"Sometimes you can even take the books to your home!"– Now imagine libraries didn’t exist…

> Rather, technology has slowly but surely rendered the storage of dead trees as obsolete in all but a few circumstances. It is my understanding that libraries serve as much more than storage places, but as community hubs. For example for many people the library is the primary place to use computers and access the internet.

[deleted]

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#25

Post by cloudsec9 »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #4

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go there and read the books for free or some small fee. False premise: Most librairies in the United States were funded and built by private philanthropy. See: Carnegie Library >"Sometimes you can even take the books to your home!"– Now imagine libraries didn’t exist…

> Just as we stopped using street cars when buses and cars proved to be more maneuverable and efficient

I think we "stopped" using street cars because cars became more affordable and made less expensive housing around the edge of cities (suburbs) possible. I've lived in a city which never got rid of streetcars, and has a good transit system; and many cities are bringing back such systems.

> because it delivered a unique benefit once upon a time

Do modern libraries not deliver benefits still? Or are you arguing that the benefit of lending paper books is in the past? I think that most libraries are adapting to their users, and have taken on new (digital) pieces in their collections -- but I do think there are still a great need for ordinary paper books for a lot of users.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#26

Post by bckr »

sokoloff wrote: post #17
eternityforest wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting involved in a war, trade war, or campaign of human rights abuse is a completely separate category from, say, spending 100 billion on some project. You might upset the economy a bit. Maybe someone will call you an idiot. But at any rate you made some jobs and nobody died. Nobody is going to demand sanctions unless someone is being badly abused. We did not spring into action with the pandemic. The only thing we…

It seems fairly unreasonable to suggest that it was a mistake to not or that it would be reasonable to have retrofitted all public buildings to have underfloor (sometimes underground) HVAC ducting added. Think about the typical large slab-on-grade grocery store, Target, Home Depot, Walmart, etc., which is the majority of the places I’ve had to go in the last two years. Given where we are with COVID, that seems like i…

> Think about the typical large slab-on-grade grocery store

You can raise the floor, just like you can drop the ceiling.

> that seems like it would have been a massively wasteful over-reaction

At least this person has some creative ideas for saving lives and actually evolving our society, so that we don't lose a million people to the next airborne virus, which I have little reason to believe won't happen next time.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#27

Post by rootsudo »

systemvoltage wrote: post #13
runamok wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels like you are missing the point a bit. The author's point could be about libraries, National Parks, infrastructure like bridges, etc. Many things seem locked in place because of only short term thinking and an unwillingness for short term pain to accomplish long term greater good. Also Carnegie built the libraries under the provision that local governments would sponsor them going forward. https://en.m.wikipedia…

If we find libraries today, with best effort they’ll be built in 4x longer than initially planned and 10x the original budget. After it launches, it would be overrun by inefficiencies to the point of extreme dysfunction. See DMV.

Also, Censorship.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#28

Post by michaelbrave »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #4

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go there and read the books for free or some small fee. False premise: Most librairies in the United States were funded and built by private philanthropy. See: Carnegie Library >"Sometimes you can even take the books to your home!"– Now imagine libraries didn’t exist…

Libraries are book focused but that is hardly all they do. They are much closer to community centers nowadays, what they provide is closer to; an internet cafe, movie rental store, concert and movie venue, local meeting rooms, 3D printers and a lot I'm sure I've not thought about.

they do too much to be innovated away, perhaps the book part could be but they do digital borrowing too so it's unlikely. Libraries only go away if we lose sight of how much they impact our community and are no longer willing to pay for them as a society.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#29

Post by musicale »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #4

>Think about libraries as a concept – the government builds a huge building, buys loads of books from many different authors and allows everyone to just go there and read the books for free or some small fee. False premise: Most librairies in the United States were funded and built by private philanthropy. See: Carnegie Library >"Sometimes you can even take the books to your home!"– Now imagine libraries didn’t exist…

> What about the authors and publishers? What about the bookstores! People will just steal and/or destroy the books! People don’t even read anymore! I am quite confident they would never get built in any major western democracy today.

Unfortunately modern (digital) libraries cannot currently be built in a way that would deliver on many of the greatest inherent benefits of digital technology (unlimited readers, free delivery to anyone in the world via the internet, unlimited sharing and copying, automatic translation into readers' preferred languages, no limits on number of books taken out or reading time, etc.) without running afoul of copyright law.

Re: To understand what is wrong with the west, think of libraries

#30

Post by noelherrick »

I am a bit aghast that the author does not mention the American robber barons who are intentionally trying to tear down government so they can pay fewer taxes and get to pass their wealth down to their children tax-free. It’s not “the West” that can’t do anything, it’s that we have whole organizations devoted to stopping any progress.

I hate when people complain about government inefficiency or incompetence when the government is being opposed and sabotaged. My county’s DMV has been nothing but a pleasure to work with. When a government system in the west is failing it’s because it’s probably underfunded or weaponized (such as punishing unemployment insurance rules).

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