Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#341

Post by Jiro » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 9:34 PM UTC

spywaregorilla wrote: post #270

dionidium wrote: post #248

It's not a coincidence that all the main characters featured in this video are women. The main thing the filmmakers are trying to show is that these are girl-bosses who can do anything men can do (and more) and it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have…

I think captain marvel is an interesting one on this note. It is a problem in recent films that writers want to overpower women to make things fair, and they do a disservice to the women by doing so. Captain marvel seems to address this directly and in a more mature way. Her character does start weak. She is shown losing repeated to her officer in physical fights and feeling inferior. Later she becomes the most power…

Captain Marvel's reference to being too emotional is a specific feminist shibboleth (https://geekfeminism.fandom.com/wiki/You%27re_being_emotiona...), which is "not explicitly a gender thing" only because that's how shibboleths work. It's absolutely a gender thing, if not explicitly one.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#342

Post by Jiro » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 9:36 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #292

dudul wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also note a parallel with female villains. Yeah they're bad, but you know, it's not their fault. They had such a tough life. And really are they that bad? And don't hear me wrong. I do love fleshed out bad guys/gals. I do want deep bad characters, but when the backstory can always be summarized with "she went through tough time because of bad men, so now yeah she's kind of bad" it doesn't really count.

> You can also note a parallel with female villains. Yeah they're bad, but you know, it's not their fault. They had such a tough life. And really are they that bad? Popular Hollywood female villains, maybe. My favorite female villains are Granny Goodness and Amanda Waller from DC Comics. Granny Goodness runs an orphanage for Apokolips. On the surface, she's a sweet old lady who recruits superheroines into Darkseid's…

>Popular Hollywood female villains, maybe.

Well, this is about "modern movies".

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#343

Post by darkerside » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

RobertMiller wrote: post #265

Buldak wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that it's not a coincidence, but that's more a reflection of the video's author than its subject matter. I agree that the depictions of female characters in question are shallow and uninteresting, but I wonder what you're watching if you think recent blockbuster movies with male leads are much better.

Classic action movies of the 80s often had very flat good-at-everything male heroes. What weaknesses does John McClain ever show in Die Hard? Vulnerability to walking barefoot on broken glass I guess, not much. There are obviously exceptions, but generally action movies don't have very interesting characters.

I feel like this is a poor example. McClain is frustrated and outmatched throughout the entire movie, and slowly is able to outmaneuver his foes through wit and determination.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#344

Post by smegsicle » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #336

smegsicle wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

showcasing female heroes as displaying exaggerated masculine abilities (in a sexualized female body) is belittling to actual feminine virtues

Who cares what you think - or what I think? Who are you or anyone to define what these women do or want - and then weakly try to appeal to authority by assigning your opinions the words "actual feminine virtues"? Many men used to define those 'virtues' as not working, voting, having an opinion, and as being obedient, sexy, and sexually available to them (but not to other men!) - how convenient! > sexualized female bo…

re-framing traditional feminine virtues (those things that most women are good at and enjoy, and which make families stronger and society flourish) as worth less than traditional masculine virtues is offensive to a lot of people, and is itself an appeal to an extremist ideology

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#345

Post by vannevar » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

smegsicle wrote: post #321

wolverine876 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are portrayed this way all the time. Why would portraying women this way get so much attention and concern?

showcasing female heroes as displaying exaggerated masculine abilities (in a sexualized female body) is belittling to actual feminine virtues

Right, though I think I'd maybe use the term "values" rather than "virtues." The underlying message of these movies is that everyone---women included---should be judged by masculine standards (plus a traditional notion of female beauty). But a pseudo-feminism that imagines a world where women succeed only through a combination of feats of strength and hotness is not feminism in any meaningful sense and serves to maintain male primacy. Changing out women for men in the same old stories is not the answer; the answer is to change the stories to put feminine values on par with masculine values. That doesn't mean we can't have kick-ass women heroes, it just means that kick-ass heroes shouldn't be our only benchmark.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#346

Post by darkerside » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

spywaregorilla wrote: post #333

darkerside wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> male centric story telling often uses combat ability as a metaphor for personal growth Why does this have to be male centric? Gaining strength as a metaphor and parallel to personal growth is a story as old as time, and there's a reason we all like it. It's like a meet cute in a date movie. You can have fun with the trope, but at the end of the day, something like it needs to happen to make a successful story in th…

> Why does this have to be male centric? I didn't say it had to?

I'll rephrase. What makes this more central to male storytelling in particular?

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#347

Post by JadeNB » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

glandium wrote: post #327

JadeNB wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely watch all movies, English and foreign, with subtitles, and can't stand dubbed movies. I've found an amusing effect of well subtitled movies is that sometimes I forget that they're on, and, if I walk away and can only hear the dialogue but not see the subtitles, then I have to take a minute to process why I can no longer understand it ….

I have the opposite problem. Subtitles draw my attention, even when I understand what's said just fine. And then it's extra distracting when the subtitles change the meaning of what is said (which happens both when watching Japanese movies with English or French subtitles, or English or French movies with Japanese subtitles)

> which happens both when watching Japanese movies with English or French subtitles, or English or French movies with Japanese subtitles.

Also, though with less frequency, sometimes when the subtitles are in the same language as the speech, which I agree is distracting. (I am monolingual, so do not experience it otherwise.) But I had rather experience that dislocation than dubbing, which to me reliably ruins even a beautiful movie. Of course à chacun son goût!

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#348

Post by nullc » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #339

wolverine876 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it pass the Bechdel Test? I don't remember it well enough: 1. There are at least two women characters, with names and their own personalities (i.e., they aren't extras) 2. The women talk to each other 3. They talk to each other about something besides men. (If you aren't familiar, an incredible number of films fail - and yes, the 'reverse Bechdel Test' (substituting men for women) is passed by almost every film.…

Yes https://bechdeltest.com/view/6242/mad_max:_fury_road/ Also, the Bechdel Test is incredibly misleading and distracts from the actual problem IMO, which is simple underrepresentation of women in movies. If only 20% of movie characters are women, probably 4% of dialogue (20% of 20%) would end up being women talking to each other. Solve representation, not content.

It's informative to realize that a substantial portion of movies also fail a gender reversed version of the Bechdel test (though sure, smaller than the original test)... Not only does it reflect the representation in main roles, it also counts films which are about men and women interacting as fails.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#349

Post by Retric » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 10:57 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #334

Retric wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s so subconscious for people to speak lauder in a noisy environment that you might not realize it, but it’s so necessary we have started to program devices to do the same thing: https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/31/22651304/amazon-alexa-ada... I am not saying intense emotions universally result in yelling, but people very rarely whisper when say calling 9/11. Even just kids playing tag get lauder.

People normally get mute in stressful situation. They normally have troubles to express things, they talk in weak voice, whisper or not at all. They have one word answers to complex questions. And anything in between. Some dissociate and act normal or follow normal script by routine. They don't whisper to the phone, they will put more conscious effort to talk into 911 call ... or the shaken mute person won't be the o…

Asking someone to speak lauder in a noisy environment is normally because they aren’t raising their voice enough rather than them failing to raise their voice at all. It’s not easy to judge how laud you need to be but the basic feedback of failing to hear your own voice if you don’t speak up prompts raising your own voice.

As to going mute, some people do completely shut down in an stressful situation, but that’s associated with for more than their voice. I have no issue with an actor in a war movie endlessly stacking ammo from point A to B. But if their having a coherent conversation, activity and productively responding to stimulation, that’s very different.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#350

Post by JanneVee » Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 11:26 PM UTC

throw872291 wrote: post #170

JanneVee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nostalgia that is the most natural thing in the world is defined as 'fascist' now?

OP is replying to a video titled 'why modern movies suck'. So OP is not referring to nostalgia. It's more a reaction to 'old times wow, now sucks'. If the video was titled 'Why I love these old films', then your reply makes sense.

I'm just replying to the notion of that the critique has a undertone of fascist feeling. The comment is somehow anchored in that any critique of modern movies is reactionary and does not have any merit of its own. What I'm trying to convey is that there is a difference between critique that is somewhat nostalgic and it would be different if the critique was ideological. I don't find much ideological bias in "the critical drinker" videos more of nostalgic bias.