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NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

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Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#71

Post by nicoburns »

idiotsecant wrote: post #48
londons_explore wrote: post #5

Right now, the marginal price is $36/MWh. Over in England, the marginal price is $268/MWh. [1] When the price of energy is 7x higher, businesses cannot compete. Everything takes energy to use or make. Yet few economists look at the price of energy when deciding which nations will rise and which will fall. Perhaps they should. [1]: https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main

You should also consider that the whole idea of a network of large independent system operators is part of the reason why power can be cheap in the US - you can dispatch the most economically viable generation source over a wide area. The UK is roughly equivalent to a mid-sized US state in terms of energy market (roughly half the market of California, for example). Having the UK act as it's own electrical balancing a…

> In a sane world all of Europe would be under a common balancing authority that could dispatch power economically based on the generation and load across the entire region

There are some pretty solid geographical reasons why the UK the isn't tied into the European grid (more than by a few interconnects).

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#72

Post by liketochill »

mardifoufs wrote: post #15
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out ElectricityMap.org, they scrape the independent dashboards (CAISO, NYISO, ISO-NE, ERCOT) for generation mix data, anything else (in the US) is pulled from EIA’s balancing authority API with a 6-12 hour lag (ElectricityMap uses machine learning to provide real time estimates based on historical data for data delayed zones, and it is spooky how accurate it is [Chile in particular] when the data backfills and…

Woah Quebec seems to have the lowest (?) Carbon intensity on the map. Hydro power is just amazing, and I'm glad we had very forward looking PMs back in the 60-70s who pushed for massive hydro projects even when the costs were gigantic. There's still so much hydro potential in the province that isn't being used though. Makes me wonder if it would be possible to build up our hydro capacity specifically for export inste…

And yet everyone is critical of current mega projects that are being built now that will benefit future generations.

Site C in BC Muskrat falls in NL/Labrador Keeyask in Manitoba.

All while We benefit from paid down mega projects from decades ago that our predecessors had the grit to fund and build

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#73

Post by s0rce »

tialaramex wrote: post #34
Spooky23 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up near this NYPA facility, which is a really interesting energy storage idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim%E2%80%93Gilboa_Hydroe... Basically, they built a reservoir on top of a mountain, and pump water up there during off peak times. When NYC hits peak demand, they let the water flow down. Essentially a giant water battery!

There are a good few pumped storage sites in the world, here's the one most convenient for me to visit (now that COVID-19 precautions have eased) in Scotland: https://www.visitcruachan.co.uk/ It isn't practical to build mountains, so you need to find some natural mountains you don't mind cutting a big hole into, with a pre-existing lake at the top, at the bottom, or ideally both, and then spend a lot of money buildin…

The US already has tons of reservoirs in the mountains. I think California does do some pumped hydro energy storage at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms_Pumped_Storage_Plant

https://www.sdcwa.org/projects/san-vicente-pumping-facilitie...

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#74

Post by replygirl »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #61
idiotsecant wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infrastructure cost is not nearly the burden that the regulatory process is. Building any kind of hydroelectric in the United States is a massive political and bureaucratic undertaking. If you plan on building pumped storage you better set aside a decade or two of constant effort to get through that process. Once you have that part done the actual building of it is comparatively simple. I am an engineer in hydro…

Pumped hydro is cool, but we already have more storage than we need, its called "not burning gas". And until we run out of opportunities to not burn gas, theres no real demand for storage. Hopefully well get there soon, but the more people say "we can't build more renewables until we have storage", the longer that is going to take.

europe came within weeks of consumer energy rationing this winter because it almost ran out of natural gas.

in the us, our natural gas infrastructure is such that if you build a new building in new york city, you can't get a gas hookup.

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#75

Post by powerbroker »

primis wrote: post #51

Interesting that the graph of power is split between "Renewables" and "other" which explicitly pulls nuclear out of that equation. NY has currently about 36.5% Renewables right now in their power mix. If they instead labeled it as "Fossil Fuels" and "Non-Fossil Power", the "Non-Fossil" Power production would be 54.3%! Also, I love how constant that Nuclear line is across the generation graph.

Here is the percentage of the combined wind + Solar + Nuclear + Hydroelectric on some grids in the East & Midwest, along with their instantaneous direction of growth/decline at 5PM CST on 3/11/2022:

  ERCOT  57.3 \ Electric Reliability Council of Texas
  MISO   41.9 - Midwest Independent System Operator
  NYIS   50.6 \ New York Independent System Operator
  SPP    44.4 \ SouthWest Power Pool
  PJM    42.4 ↗ PJM Interconnection (PA, NJ, MD, OH, IN, DE & Chicago)
...and at 6PM CST:

  ERCOT  48.7 \ Electric Reliability Council of Texas
  MISO   40.7 \ Midwest Independent System Operator
  NYIS   50.1 - New York Independent System Operator
  SPP    37.5 \ SouthWest Power Pool
  PJM    41.5 - PJM Interconnection (PA, NJ, MD, OH, IN, DE & Chicago)
So you can see, that, particularly in wind-blow Texas and middle of the U.S. (SPP includes Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska), the penetration of renewables + Nuclear is quite dynamic.

More details at: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electr...

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#76

Post by powerbroker »

lprubin wrote: post #65

Can anyone explain the dip in power usage between 11am and 4pm? Why would less energy used between those hours?

The morning and evening dips are generally caused by people operating ovens, microwaves, start-up of some factory equipment, but in this season, no A/C. A/C completely changes the curve as you approach June. Late afternoons become a single peak for the 24 hour periods.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=43295

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#77

Post by ZeroGravitas »

replygirl wrote: post #74
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pumped hydro is cool, but we already have more storage than we need, its called "not burning gas". And until we run out of opportunities to not burn gas, theres no real demand for storage. Hopefully well get there soon, but the more people say "we can't build more renewables until we have storage", the longer that is going to take.

europe came within weeks of consumer energy rationing this winter because it almost ran out of natural gas. in the us, our natural gas infrastructure is such that if you build a new building in new york city, you can't get a gas hookup.

I'm not sure you understood my comment.

Europe has lots of gas heaters, and gas electrical generation. Which means they can build lots of renewables without any need for storage. They just store the gas they would have burned when it's windy and sunny, and burn it when it's not.

Every gas heater replaced with a heat pump, increases this 'storage' capacity.

Until that stops being true, they have no real need for storage, just more renewables.

One cheap and effective way to do this, is to ban new gas hookups on newly built or refurbished buildings. This saves a lot of money. It sounds like NY is doing this, so good for them. Smart move New York.

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#78

Post by powerbroker »

mikeyouse wrote: post #35
ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic damages of a 30km exclusion zone that close to NYC might be significant, even without deaths.

Also the Japanese government is projecting a total of somewhere between $200 billion and $600 billion to clean up the mess left behind -- amortizing that on the $/MWh produced by the power plant would probably lead to slightly more expensive power... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/clearing-the-radi...

The proper way to make the accounting is to sum the cleanup for Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima, and then divide by the 120-180 operating nuclear plants and further divide by the 25-35 years of continuous operation:

           ∑ accidents
  ---------------------------
   ∑ fleet  x  years operated

Re: NY energy grid: Real-time dashboard

#79

Post by dannyfraser »

The all-Europe equivalent is ENTSO-E[1], which has down to 15-minute granularity (depending on operator I think) data for every generation unit in Europe.

There's a similar platform for the gas network too[2] - only daily data but it does have a map interface where you can see the main transmission pipelines across the continent.

I work in energy markets analytics, so grab data from these on a regular basis for SMEs.

[1]: https://transparency.entsoe.eu/ [2]: https://transparency.entsog.eu/#/map

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