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U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#321

Post by phoe18 »

cj wrote: post #115
oneoff786 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logically there needs to be a way to control the car at all times, otherwise you could be locked into a long trip you don’t want to take. The difference is just that it’s higher level controls than a steering wheel.

I'm pretty sure this was an episode on HBO's Silicon Valley. The character's Tesla drove itself onto a container ship with the driver stuck inside, unable to get out of the car.

Yes, source for anyone interested in (re)watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-trd_f6j3eI

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#322

Post by magikaram »

tshaddox wrote: post #268
nobody9999 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Go and move to West Memphis, TN (or, as I said, with most places in the US) and try to live without a car. Not really a choice. Which is why I live in a place with halfway-decent (well, the best in the US anyway) public transport.

Again, it is a choice, and the fact that you choose the better option doesn't mean it's not a choice.

Yet for many people, where they live isnt a choice, or their method of transport. Most of the US undeniably has poor public transport, and the only realistic means of travel for a day to day work schedule is via automobile.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#323

Post by shadowgovt »

digbybk wrote: post #110
beardyw wrote: post #35

If your vehicle is heading relentlessly toward a group of schoolchildren it would be nice to have a way to override it. Either that or no windows so you won't be haunted by it every night of your life.

I'm not sure if I'm optimistic about autonomous vehicles or just very pessimistic about human drivers. I have no confidence that the next driver making a left turn while I'm crossing the road won't kill me. I'm much more comfortable with a computer that is programmed to avoid killing me, even if the software may have the occasional bug, than with a human who may or may not prioritize my life over whatever else it is…

The nice thing about self-driving cars is that when fatal errors are found, the software can be updated so the car will never make that mistake again.

We can't do that with humans; instead, we have probabilities and known badly-designed roads that incentivize (or don't disincentivize) driving in a way likelier to cause death. The only way to fix those issues at scale is redesign the roads, often for less efficient traffic throughput.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#324

Post by coolspot »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #219
vmception wrote: post #122

I was at a crosswalk and saw a car with the big cameras on top coming Normally I walk and have confidence the human will stop and not want the consequences, or I at least make eye contact with the human driver for reassurance they will stop This time I ran, mumbling “self driving car fuck that”

We need a machine vision version of looking in the eyes. Maybe red lasers that point at your heart to signal that it has compassion for your heart.

Just stick googly eyes onto headrest.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#325

Post by shadowgovt »

sumo89 wrote: post #99

Where's that video of the guy's dash cam showing what full autonomous driving in a Tesla is currently like, the one where it keeps trying to drive him head first in to other vehicles. I'm hoping this is just intended for on-campus shuttles or something.

Tesla is not representative of the state-of-the-art in the industry.

In fact, many of the other companies in the space are looking down their nose at Tesla's experiment because Musk thinks he can do the trick without LIDAR. He might not be wrong (humans do it without LIDAR), but it's a hell of a gamble that results in a sensor bundle quite different from the sensory tapestry other self-driving vehicles can take advantage of.

Couple that with the fact that other companies are employing professional drivers to test their hardware on public roads while Musk is crowdsourcing it to anyone rich enough to buy one of his cars, and one can get the sense why those who are actually concerned about driver and pedestrian safety are real nervous about Musk's foray into this space.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#326

Post by rmbyrro »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #203
rmbyrro wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never thought driving a vehicle is that general of an activity to require AGI. Which parts of driving would require AGI?

> Which parts of driving would require AGI? Being able to read the intent of other cars and preemptively act if necessary. For instance, being able to predict that the harried mom on her phone toting 3 screaming kids in her beat up minivan is likely to change lanes without looking (I passed her preemptively), or that the car with out-of-state plates is likely to miss a confusingly signed exit and try and cut over at…

These are indeed examples that are far ahead of the tech we have today, but I'd bet a single-digit percentage of drivers actually perform these tasks, and most do it only occasionally. There are areas where AI drivers win over human drivers. Maybe it's already net positive?

I have the opinion we don't need AI to be perfect, just on par or better than humans from an aggregate perspective.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#327

Post by shadowgovt »

loeg wrote: post #189
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #171

I would go further - if the vehicle is autonomous, it should be illegal for it to have a steering wheel. The idea that you can make a deadly self-driving car, and then jail the driver because he could not react in 0.2 seconds when your car suddenly swerved is the greatest handover of money and power to corporations since the times of slavery. So make the choice clear - either tha car has controls, or it doesn't. And…

This is silly. I want a self-driving car that drives me 95% of the way to the mountains, but allows me to take control on the dirt road that is the last 1-3 miles to the trailhead.

That may be available in the end.

This change to the law makes it so that if someone else wants one that can't do that last 5%, it's not literally illegal to sell them that car.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#328

Post by oblak »

flancian wrote: post #245
cameronh90 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently disconnected the capacitive power button on my desktop thanks to my stupid cat repeatedly turning off my computer. Instead, I've turned on the feature in the BIOS to boot up when power is applied. Now, to turn on my desktop, I just flip the power switch on the back. Feels satisfyingly retro.

As an aside, that sounds like a smart cat, not a stupid one. Perhaps your cat enjoys seeing you react to its shenanigans? :)

That would be my guess. Must be fun watching cameronh90 getting punished for not emitting enough attention particles

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#329

Post by dekhn »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #237
dekhn wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about one standard deviation about the mean? (sorry, I'm an unrepentant mean over median person)

It was a bit tongue-in-cheek - the median driver has precisely zero accidents in any given year. I don't really know how to think about it. Accident rate, on a per-mile basis, falls out of some combination of "hardness of the driving problem" (freeways have many fewer accidents than city streets, I think) as well as propensity to take risks (driving at night; in bad weather; at higher speeds; while distracted) as wel…

I believe the median driver has N/M accidents a year, where N is the number of accidents, and M is the number of people, right? Well, no, I that's true of the mean, but not the median.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#330

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

Kinrany wrote: post #256
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about that recently, that there needs to be some kind of “I see you” system. Maybe an external light that tracks you or something. Anything that can help me as a pedestrian understand what its internal state is.

How hard would it be for all vehicles to broadcast an ID, a location and a velocity and reply with confirmations when one vehicle sees and "hears" another one?

I was specifically thinking as a pedestrian, which that wouldn’t suffice for.
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