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U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#301

Post by infogulch »

cameronh90 wrote: post #239
jedberg wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as I typed that I knew someone would reply with this. :). I agree it would be nice and I sometimes miss physical switches, but imagine how clunky a Raspberry Pi would be with a physical switch. And besides, I almost never used the switch on the computer anyway. I was always told to put it into a power strip and use that, because it was a lot cheaper to replace the power strip than the broken power switch on t…

I recently disconnected the capacitive power button on my desktop thanks to my stupid cat repeatedly turning off my computer. Instead, I've turned on the feature in the BIOS to boot up when power is applied. Now, to turn on my desktop, I just flip the power switch on the back. Feels satisfyingly retro.

Single use instant off capacitive power buttons is the stupidest design for a power switch I've ever seen. It's on the Xbox One (I think?) as well. A cat walking past or someone messing around with unrelated AV equipment accidentally brushing up against it are NOT valid use modes for a device that is running live with a lot of state that evaporates when you turn it off and takes more than 1s to restart. Dumb.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#302

Post by tshaddox »

nobody9999 wrote: post #273
tshaddox wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it is a choice, and the fact that you choose the better option doesn't mean it's not a choice.

>Again, it is a choice, and the fact that you choose the better option doesn't mean it's not a choice. What's the choice? I don't have any idea what you mean

The choice is to stay at home, where you are very unlikely to get in a car accident, or to drive a car, which greatly increased the risk of accident and death.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#303

Post by Dylan16807 »

Communitivity wrote: post #274
jedberg wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have it poll once a minute and ask for instructions with a display in the car that says "instructed to go to X, accept?" and then have it auto accept after another minute. Sure that means maybe waiting two minutes for the car to move, but that's not a huge deal, especially if you know that happens and request it two minutes in advance, but it gives anyone in the car the chance to cancel the request if it's invalid.

Something controls the software that would ask for instructions, and that could be hacked. I'd also suggest a default of auto-reject after a minute, not auto-accept. When people think about attack surfaces in devices they often think about the things making repeated connections out. The thing is, every piece of reachable mutable code in the device is an attack surface, not just the software making connections. You ma…

> I'd also suggest a default of auto-reject after a minute, not auto-accept.

You're suggesting that if a self-driving car has a feature to remotely summon it, such a feature should need a passenger inside to click "accept"?

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#304

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

Kinrany wrote: post #256
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about that recently, that there needs to be some kind of “I see you” system. Maybe an external light that tracks you or something. Anything that can help me as a pedestrian understand what its internal state is.

How hard would it be for all vehicles to broadcast an ID, a location and a velocity and reply with confirmations when one vehicle sees and "hears" another one?

There are standards under consideration for just this purpose. See this RFC: https://www.transportation.gov/v2x

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#305

Post by rukuu001 »

downut wrote: post #154
cj wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eye contact is also a major component of driving a motorcycle safely. When at an intersection, you know another car sees you by looking through their windshield and judging whether the person is distracted or if they're aware of your presence. It would really benefit motorcyclists, pedestrians, and other drivers if there were some mechanism for self-driving cars to visually and outwardly acknowledge your presence. Ho…

Avid bicyclist here. If I'm approaching an intersection with the possibility of conflicting with a motor vehicle even though I have clear right of way I stare at the driver's eyes. If he's not looking at me, I prepare for evasive action or possible emergency braking. Same for me going along my way and an oncoming MV turning left in front of/into me. I get a close call every year or two. I am very rude and they always…

During my 20 years of bike commuting I remember the three times someone looked me in the eye and pulled out in front of me.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#306

Post by signatoremo »

ear7h wrote: post #32
schleck8 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After removing the steering wheel and making the car fully autonomous, I bet you'll have to pay a subscription for it to drive. And a subscription for a cellular service.

And then they could optimize the model for efficiency by picking up multiple people that share similar routes. It could even become a public service!

this sounds like a snarky remark, but a hybrid public transportation mode where an autonomous van can pick up people at their convenience is exactly desirable, more than the public bus or train today. Less walking, less waiting, on demand connection.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#307

Post by vocram »

polygloty wrote: post #241
christophilus wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be like saying today that you can't have a computer without an on/off switch because in the 70s every computer had a physical switch. As aside, that’d be great.

Think about having a switch on a laptop. And if the switch doesn't just kill power (which it shouldn't to safely shut down), then it shouldn't be a switch it might be better as a button.

You want a switch that also kills power without software or firmware.

I had a Dell that once got stuck and the usual long press of the power button was not switching it off (probably it was sw/fw controlled). I had to take it apart and disconnect the battery, otherwise I would have lost my working day waiting for it to die.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#308

Post by young_unixer »

cinntaile wrote: post #207
young_unixer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driver should know the capabilities of the car. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't drive it. If he isn't 100% sure that autonomous driving system will work as expected, then he should never enable that system.

According to your criterium that means never. There is no way to be 100% sure how an autonomous driving system will work as expected.

Yes.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#309

Post by young_unixer »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #255
young_unixer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driver should know the capabilities of the car. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't drive it. If he isn't 100% sure that autonomous driving system will work as expected, then he should never enable that system.

How does the driver know reliability of closed-source, ai based autonomous system is the manufacturer himself doesn't?

They don't, so they shouldn't use it.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#310

Post by dmix »

admiral33 wrote: post #232
cj wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eye contact is also a major component of driving a motorcycle safely. When at an intersection, you know another car sees you by looking through their windshield and judging whether the person is distracted or if they're aware of your presence. It would really benefit motorcyclists, pedestrians, and other drivers if there were some mechanism for self-driving cars to visually and outwardly acknowledge your presence. Ho…

Jaguar experimented with putting eyes on the vehicle itself: https://www.businessinsider.com/jaguar-land-rover-eyes-on-ca...

I was expecting Googly eyes and wasn't disappointed.
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