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U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#131

Post by john_minsk »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #87
cannaceo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is beating the existing standard not enough?

Presumably, if a specific person is a very good driver, entering an automated vehicle that is merely better than average driver, with no controls to interject, results in a net reduction of safety for this individual. More specifically, what IF or rather WHEN there is an incident that could've been prevented by human interjection, but wasn't? Other aspect is, why are we only ever discussing these separately? What is…

We will. For consumers like you there will be a $100k option to increase safety by adding sensors/compute power or something else on top of a base model. But the ultimate game here is to free people from the need to drive cars for a living or pay someone to do so. This will also open a lot of other optimisations to human life, which exist now due to cost of human labor. If human stays in the car - this mission is failed. + It's not like if you are the most careful driver you are safe - if a drunk no-licensed jerk aims for your car - you are dead due to his lack of driving ability, not yours.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#132

Post by Xorlev »

xwdv wrote: post #108
lupire wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have inexpensive cloning and rapid growth technology.

Children are pretty much fungible before a certain age.

I realize you're probably joking, but life isn't fungible.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#133

Post by tshaddox »

bushbaba wrote: post #114
nindalf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you share how many accidents happen, rather than deaths? With a source as well, if you happen to be looking it up.

Would you use an autonomous car if the death rate increases but accident rate decreases? I figure deaths per million miles is a good stat

Most people choose to use cars despite that increasing both death rate and accident rate.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#134

Post by john_minsk »

vmception wrote: post #122

I was at a crosswalk and saw a car with the big cameras on top coming Normally I walk and have confidence the human will stop and not want the consequences, or I at least make eye contact with the human driver for reassurance they will stop This time I ran, mumbling “self driving car fuck that”

Cars will project to your Apple glasses if they see you or not)

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#135

Post by natch »

paulcole wrote: post #47
walkhour wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the analogy fail given autonomous vehicles are eventually possible and pursued and unicorns not?

> given autonomous vehicles are eventually possible I think of this as an unproven assumption, not a given.

It may be an assumption, but I think of it as akin to the assumption that Wilbur and Orville Wright had that heavier than air flying craft could become practical. Unproven, but one would be a fool to bet money against it happening on the OP’s “eventually” timeline.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#136

Post by balabaster »

Communitivity wrote: post #120

This is problematic for a number of reasons. The most important in my mind is that the risk of the vehicle being hacked and carjacked remotely is always present. With the presence of an automation kill-switch and manual human controls the driver can always take back control. Without those, the driver is at the mercy of the hacker. Vehicle automation falls under the SCADA sub-domain of cyber-security. SCADA stands for…

Having spent half a decade working in Oil & Gas flow control systems directly, I can confirm that 10 years ago when I left that industry, cyber security was still not even a consideration. Light years behind wasn't an accurate statement - non-existent was more accurate.

Admittedly computer systems have come a long way in ten years, but given the attitudes and technical expertise of a lot of the people I worked alongside, I would say there's a reasonable chance the needle hasn't moved very far.

They're excruciatingly good at getting oil out of the ground and getting it to market, but they're not going to be winning capture the flag at Defcon or Blackhat any time soon...

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#137

Post by [deleted] »

cannaceo wrote: post #75
bottled_poe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistical equivalence is one thing, but the risk will shift within the population. Let’s set the bar a bit higher than above average ? The average driver is a dumbass. autonomous vehicles should be expected to consistently make better decisions than the best drivers, not just the average ones.

Why is beating the existing standard not enough?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#138

Post by notriddle »

pydry wrote: post #48
walkhour wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving is already a Russian roulette right? If autonomous vehicles are safer than human drivers as advertised the barrel would just have more capacity.

Self driving cars will be as safe as the level of criminal liability faced by the makers. Regulatory capture means it wont be high and the potential profits to be realized from first mover advantage here means there will be a significant incentive to "move fast and break things". So to speak. I'd feel safe if an executive who OKs a software update that kills someone risks significant jail time. If that means no self…

As if automakers haven't found plenty of ways to make human-piloted cars less safe in exchange for profit.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#139

Post by peteradio »

HPsquared wrote: post #3

I think any automated vehicle, no matter how advanced, should always have a big red button to make it stop whatever it's doing. Kind of like the emergency brake on a passenger train.

A sufficiently autonomous vehicle might just ignore you. Are pedal brakes in passenger driven vehicles reliant on computer at all, what about electrical transmission?

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#140

Post by reedjosh »

Communitivity wrote: post #120

This is problematic for a number of reasons. The most important in my mind is that the risk of the vehicle being hacked and carjacked remotely is always present. With the presence of an automation kill-switch and manual human controls the driver can always take back control. Without those, the driver is at the mercy of the hacker. Vehicle automation falls under the SCADA sub-domain of cyber-security. SCADA stands for…

Not to mention the use of a hacked autonomous vehicle as a weapon.
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