It's certainly interesting how an oppressed people became the oppressor.
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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
371–380 of 735 posts
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#372Most comments here are attacking the decision, or just quoting the decision, and following it up by a "wtf". Just being shocked is not an argument. Jews are or have been persecuted in all middle eastern countries. What would happen if they were a minority in a democratic state in the Middle East? Why would it be different than in the other democracies in the Middle East? Laws like these lower the probability of Jews…
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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#373Most comments here are attacking the decision, or just quoting the decision, and following it up by a "wtf". Just being shocked is not an argument. Jews are or have been persecuted in all middle eastern countries. What would happen if they were a minority in a democratic state in the Middle East? Why would it be different than in the other democracies in the Middle East? Laws like these lower the probability of Jews…
> What would happen if they were a minority in a democratic state in the Middle East? Why would it be different than in the other democracies in the Middle East?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Parliament_religious_m...
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Arab or Christian You mean Muslim or Christian (either of which can be Arab).
This is so annoying. It’s not rocket science to understand that Arabic is a language and you are only an Arab if your cultural language is Arabic. Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. It’s like saying that all who speak English are Christians. And all who are Christians speak English.
Similarly, not all Christians in Israel or Ghaza are Arabs (though the vast majority are). I didn't want to list all somewhat significant ethnic minorities, so I thought Arab (Muslim, Christian, Druze, etc) + (non-Arabic) Christians (including Armeneans, Arameans, Copts, Assyrians and many other small groups, together making up something like 10k people)
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
A third of Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language. That really sounds fine to you?
The hypothetical doesn’t ban marrying Russian speakers or citizens. It doesn’t ban naturalisation based on marriage for a Russian speaker. It bans naturalisation based on marriage for Russian citizens. While at war that seems fine.
Thank you, this is my point. The Israeli right wing views the Palestinian state as an extension of Jordan and other Arab states surrounding Israel, and while they are not currently shooting at each other, they are most definitely not at peace with them.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#376Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#377First of all, this isn't a ban on Israeli-Palestinian marriage, this is a restriction on the ability to gain citizenship through those marriages. I don't agree with that, but I do think it's important to clarify. Regarding comments I'm seeing here saying Israel is an apartheid state or that Israel is racist or that Israel the concept of a Jewish state is disgusting: Israel is the size of New Jersey. It is the only st…
You can try diverting from the core issue at hand, using semantic sleights of hand, but it’s becoming apparent that Israel is indeed an apartheid state. By the laws it enacts and the oppression they enable, it is the definition of a racist state. The world is beginning to see it too, though very slowly.
The existential crisis of Judaism is indeed a core issue, although I am of the opinion that it does not justify the tactics and laws present. That does make it an Apartheid state.
However, OP used no semantic sleights and the suggestion he did is concerning to discourse. He was describing its origins, and you its current conditions. If you reject the idea the Jewish people would like / need a homeland then just say that.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it was built with the intention of subjugation, but I think it has been a consequence of its implementation and politics. I do think there is a version of a Jewish state that doesn't behave like this, but its current political consensus is not that state.
"I don't think it was built with the intention of subjugation," But was it built with the intention of segregation?
Yes. The premise of a state which is 'for' a specific group inherently employs segregation. I say subjugation because I think there is a version of that system that maintains a Jewish ruling majority without subjugating the minority.
Again, you can agree or disagree with a state that is built on segregation, but I ask that you include in your judgement the history and context of Israel's existence.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#379This article doesn’t really provide much in the way of explanation for why this law is being enacted. Here [0] is a better article that quotes supporters and objectors to the law. It includes the (IMHO not very convincing) figures that "Between 1993 and 2003, around 130,000 Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship or residency through family unification, including children, according to court filings. The Shin Bet…
From your source: "Israeli politicians say the law is both an essential security measure to prevent Palestinian terror attacks and a means of preserving a Jewish majority in Israel." Maybe it's more of an immigration policy than a security policy?
It's a policy of apartheid, which is motivated by both immigration and security.
Fortunately, as we have learned over the past few weeks, sanctions are an effective means of pushback against archaic 20-th century statesmanship.