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U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#81

Post by zekrioca »

imajoredinecon wrote: post #72
zekrioca wrote: post #29

The first sentence of this article has an interesting reading: "U.S. regulators on Thursday issued final rules eliminating the need for automated vehicle manufacturers to equip fully autonomous vehicles with manual driving controls to meet crash standards." It does sound like "U.S. regulators are removing regulations.", which does look like they are acting against themselves..

Regulators are responsible for maintaining sets of rules that are just as comprehensive as they need to be and no more. Part of the job description is updating or removing old rules, just like part of it is creating new ones.

Maybe you misread it, and/or maybe I miswrote it, and/or maybe both. But I meant about the phrasing and my understanding of it, not about the actual job of a regulator.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#82

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

walkhour wrote: post #71
verisimi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define 'safer'. If you have not paid your taxes, get in to your car, and it drives you to the local court-house or police station, this is a new risk, no?

I was thinking in terms of casualties per miles driven. Agreed that this definition doesn't capture all the danger.

Casualties per miles driven is a terrible stat for current self-driving technology because as it stands, it forces drivers to take over in the most dangerous situations. And you can't generalize for all miles in cars capable of self-driving because the population who own cars like that are not representative of the average. It's a very tricky thing to accurately measure whether it's safer for an individual to drive themselves or let the car do it for them.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#83

Post by trainedforthis »

pizza wrote: post #7

Reading between the lines here this just makes me think that the regulator has become captured by the industry. This is like removing human control on an autonomous Russian roulette revolver that shoots to the side if it detects a person in front of the barrel, then praying for the best.

I find it rather fascinating that we require a human-in-the-loop for a train but not for a car.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#85

Post by roamerz »

pluc wrote: post #39
beardyw wrote: post #35

If your vehicle is heading relentlessly toward a group of schoolchildren it would be nice to have a way to override it. Either that or no windows so you won't be haunted by it every night of your life.

We have the technology to replace schoolchildren at a much lower cost than cars

Comment of the day. Thanks for the laugh.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#86

Post by snarf21 »

pydry wrote: post #48
walkhour wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving is already a Russian roulette right? If autonomous vehicles are safer than human drivers as advertised the barrel would just have more capacity.

Self driving cars will be as safe as the level of criminal liability faced by the makers. Regulatory capture means it wont be high and the potential profits to be realized from first mover advantage here means there will be a significant incentive to "move fast and break things". So to speak. I'd feel safe if an executive who OKs a software update that kills someone risks significant jail time. If that means no self…

I agree that there is a significant monetary incentive to "move fast and kill people". In the end, paying out a few $MM to random families is financially minimal compared to the $BBB that are up for grabs. We will never really have executives going to jail for things like this. We've built a system of profits > anything else.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#87

Post by NikolaNovak »

cannaceo wrote: post #75
bottled_poe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistical equivalence is one thing, but the risk will shift within the population. Let’s set the bar a bit higher than above average ? The average driver is a dumbass. autonomous vehicles should be expected to consistently make better decisions than the best drivers, not just the average ones.

Why is beating the existing standard not enough?

Presumably, if a specific person is a very good driver, entering an automated vehicle that is merely better than average driver, with no controls to interject, results in a net reduction of safety for this individual.

More specifically, what IF or rather WHEN there is an incident that could've been prevented by human interjection, but wasn't?

Other aspect is, why are we only ever discussing these separately? What is the safety of a automation-assisted human? Can we get to the point where safety is better than either system alone?

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#88

Post by AlexandrB »

ape4 wrote: post #22
ASinclair wrote: post #15

I took my first self-driving ride last night. One of the wildest parts was watching the steering wheel and hearing the pedals move on their own.

I wonder if something makes the wheel turn which actually turns the car. Or is the wheel just a visual indicator.

Most cars still have some aspect of mechanical coupling between the steering wheel and the front wheels in case of electrical failure. There are some cars that have had "steer by wire", but it's still very uncommon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire#Steer_by_wire

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#89

Post by finnh »

api wrote: post #64
piyh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite youtubers did an hour long video on the trucker convoy from California to DC and it was a peak into another world. The thing I thought about after watching it was wondering what it looks like when that group has mass unemployment in 10 years. Truck driving employs 1% of the US population and if those jobs are lost to automation, there's no chance of them coming back like they did throughout other r…

I'm going to submit that some of these COVID protests are not COVID protests. They are inequality protests, but seriously talking about inequality has been pushed out of the Overton window across much of the American political landscape. As a result the anger "sublimates" out about other issues. The right does a good job guiding the anger of the working class toward issues that have nothing to do with inequality like…

Such a good point about housing. Also, green new deal jobs upgrading the energy efficiency of our housing stock. Lots of work to be done.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#90

Post by bcrosby95 »

walkhour wrote: post #30
pizza wrote: post #7

Reading between the lines here this just makes me think that the regulator has become captured by the industry. This is like removing human control on an autonomous Russian roulette revolver that shoots to the side if it detects a person in front of the barrel, then praying for the best.

Driving is already a Russian roulette right? If autonomous vehicles are safer than human drivers as advertised the barrel would just have more capacity.

Car accidents kill someone every 100 million miles driven in the US.

Anyone claiming they're safer now is either selling something or doesn't know what they're talking about.

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