Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it’s under military occupation. And not recognized as Israeli territory by anyone, including Israel. If the territory had been annexed and put under civilian law and everyone there had been given Israeli citizenship 60 years ago, I would indeed agree that although that was bad, it’s not worth crying over spilled milk in the present day, much like e.g. the British conquest of Quebec. But that’s not the case. I…
Quebec happened because britian and france signed a peace treaty that both sides respected. Nobody has managed to cobble together a peace treaty for the israel-palestine situation that actually got respected.
Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
261–270 of 735 posts
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same reason Russia is getting flak for invading and occupying territory (including, even, from Israel!) when Israel has illegally occupied the West Bank for decades with no consequences. Western countries apply their moral principles differently to their allies.
I'm not a fan of the occupation of the West Bank, but those are not 1:1 scenarios. West Bank was occupied after Jordan initiated the offensive, not Israel, as opposed to Russia who is the aggressor. A 1:1 scenario would be if Ukraine invaded Russia and then Russia took control over Ukraine territory, which in that case i'd argue the outcry would be minimal.
It's also not a complete 1:1 because the a big reason they are holding these territories is for national security. The west bank and golan heights are both ideal places which can be used to launch rockets into israeli. They tried relinquishing the gaza strip and what immediately happened was hamas took over it and started firing rockets at israel. so they're not likely to change their mind about the other territories after that.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
Are you trying to say that there's something inherent to the Jewish population that they're less likely to marry a non-Jewish person than a Muslim is to marry a non-Muslim?
I am not sure, where you draw that conclusion from, but yes that would be correct.
Because the jewish religious law (which many jews have to follow to peer pressure, even if they are not religious by themself) explicitely forbids marrying non jews and no one can convert to the jewish religion.
Muslims on the other hand can marry non muslims, but are supposed to convert them. So this is indeed way more comon.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same reason Russia is getting flak for invading and occupying territory (including, even, from Israel!) when Israel has illegally occupied the West Bank for decades with no consequences. Western countries apply their moral principles differently to their allies.
If Israel was an ally they would be helping to supply weapons and armor to Ukraine. Instead they will not supply anything more than medication. The US gives Israel plenty of military $ for them to share in times of need. As a strictly emotional thought, this makes me feel Israel is a country to cozy up to the strongest nation at the time. If the US falls from grace Israel will have no problem ‘switching’ sides to Rus…
> As a strictly emotional thought, this makes me feel Israel is a country to cozy up to the strongest nation at the time. If the US falls from grace Israel will have no problem ‘switching’ sides to Russia.
That's in line with Israel's priorities, which first and foremost is its own survival.
At lot people kind of lazily expect Israel to act like your typical invincible Western state, but it's pretty vulnerable. It's also probably acutely aware of that fact, since within living memory all its neighbors vowed to destroy it and nearly did so.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#265It's certainly interesting how an oppressed people became the oppressor.
That comment ignores a lot of nuance. It's not like all white people are Americans even if lots of white people live in the US.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#266Here's an interesting exercise: 1. Substitute "Israel's Knesset" for ANY other legislative body anywhere. 2. Substitute "Palestinian" for ANY other nationality, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, or other adjective describing a group to which YOU belong. 3. See if you like how it feels: "[Legislative body] passes law barring spouses who are [like you] from becoming citizens."
This law doesn't restrict marriages, it restricts citizenship through marriages for Palestinians. I'm not defending that but I am clarifying it.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#267>Proponents say the law helps ensure Israel's security and maintains its "Jewish character". What the fuck?
What the fuck indeed. I can't help but think of the Nuremberg laws in Germany. More specifically the "Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor" [1]. Sure, it's not _that bad_ (e.g., the Israeli law is not banning marriages per se) but has a similar sentiment.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Law_for_the_Pro...
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same reason Russia is getting flak for invading and occupying territory (including, even, from Israel!) when Israel has illegally occupied the West Bank for decades with no consequences. Western countries apply their moral principles differently to their allies.
If Israel was an ally they would be helping to supply weapons and armor to Ukraine. Instead they will not supply anything more than medication. The US gives Israel plenty of military $ for them to share in times of need. As a strictly emotional thought, this makes me feel Israel is a country to cozy up to the strongest nation at the time. If the US falls from grace Israel will have no problem ‘switching’ sides to Rus…
By that yard stick many countries would no longer count as allys. Mexico for example.
Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is how the Middle East works by the way. Interreligious marriages are a very big deal and banned in every single Middle Eastern country. Just to put some extra emphasis on quite how wrong this is: they are likely banned in almost no Middle Eastern country. Source: Married a woman from and in a Middle Eastern country under heavy sanctions just a few years ago. Ironically, the law in question is not about the le…
It is absolutely right. Want to look up what the legal stance in Egypt of an Egyptian Christian Male married a Muslim Woman? (even if she isn't Egyptian)
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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is so annoying. It’s not rocket science to understand that Arabic is a language and you are only an Arab if your cultural language is Arabic. Not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. It’s like saying that all who speak English are Christians. And all who are Christians speak English.
Just imagine your from Africa and everyone in the Media talks about "Africa" as if Morocco and for example Tanzania can be compared ;)
Happens with everyplace. Like when college kids go on their first overseas trip to Spain and come back talking about how "people in Europe" eat dinner late or are less prudish or whatever. As if Barcelona is just like Tallinn and Zagreb.