Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom • Hacker News Board

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#131

Post by 2143 » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 9:56 AM UTC

beej71 wrote: post #79

2143 wrote: post #22

I'm not even a US/UK/EU citizen. Is there any way I can contribute? Or do I just sit and watch the world burn as policymakers elsewhere indirectly make policies that might inadvertently affect people far far away as well?

Donate to the EFF: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/01/congress-must-stop-gra...

I'm just worried that in the rare event that I travel to the west will somebody be like "Well, here's the foreigner who funded to sabotage what our government wanted! Go away!" and get myself banned from entering .

Off-topic: Happy to see your reply here, Beej. I love the books you have authored :)

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#132

Post by alfiedotwtf » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

How is the banning encryption NOT a First Amendment issue like it used to be in the 90s?

I can't see a US court preventing free speech, so why prevent someone digital free speech?

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#133

Post by tyler33 » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

vitiral wrote: post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

You are right, in fact EARN-IT is very good for criminals

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#134

Post by throwawayffffas » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:19 AM UTC

2143 wrote: post #22

I'm not even a US/UK/EU citizen. Is there any way I can contribute? Or do I just sit and watch the world burn as policymakers elsewhere indirectly make policies that might inadvertently affect people far far away as well?

Learn cryptography, write cryptographic software, it's really important that people out of the US do so. Because if a bill like this passes we will need software without backdoors.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#135

Post by delusional » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

parineum wrote: post #44

vitiral wrote: post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

>Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. It is a poor metaphor because locks prevent invasion not enable privacy. Banning encryption is such an attack on privacy that it's closer to banning clothes and easing concerns by making looking at naked people illegal. Encryption is the fundamental unit of network privacy.

I think that's a pretty good metaphor. I have been stuck on the parallels between locks and encryption for a while. This kinda cleared that up.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#136

Post by Archelaos » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:24 AM UTC

How serious should we really take such initiatives? Since the 1990s, the topic has popped up regularly, but apparently by people with little technical expertise or economic imagination. Regardless of how less these people value free speech, any state with a market economy, i.e. in which economic activities are based on the initiatives of its citizens, must protect the secrecy of communications between its citizens simply for economic reasons. Otherwise, the country's economy would be fundamentally exposed to foreign powers, putting national security at the highest risk: financial transactions could be more easily manipulated, trade secretes more easily stolen, etc.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#137

Post by usrbinbash » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:37 AM UTC

Everytime someone invokes an argument how taking something away by law prevents some form of crime, my answer is a simple fact:

Criminals, by definition, don't follow the law.

Now, in some cases, that isn't a problem: Guns are an obvious example, because they take resources and knowledge to manufacture, and are physical objects that can be tracked. Taking these away by law works.

But encryption isn't a physical object or something that needs to be manufactured. It's math and algorithms. It can be copied infinitely. So, if the law takes that away, law abiding people will no longer have access to the benefits, while criminals will just ... well, as criminals by definition do, ignore the law, and still use encryption.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#138

Post by Beltiras » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:38 AM UTC

vitiral wrote: post #20

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all. Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured compute…

In that case everyone should become a criminal.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#139

Post by shabier » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:42 AM UTC

usrbinbash wrote: post #137

Everytime someone invokes an argument how taking something away by law prevents some form of crime, my answer is a simple fact: Criminals, by definition, don't follow the law. Now, in some cases, that isn't a problem: Guns are an obvious example, because they take resources and knowledge to manufacture, and are physical objects that can be tracked. Taking these away by law works. But encryption isn't a physical objec…

Spot on. Criminals will not be affected by these new laws. Perhaps this one is just a precursor of another law

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#140

Post by rhn_mk1 » Fri, Mar 11, 2022, 10:52 AM UTC

usrbinbash wrote: post #137

Everytime someone invokes an argument how taking something away by law prevents some form of crime, my answer is a simple fact: Criminals, by definition, don't follow the law. Now, in some cases, that isn't a problem: Guns are an obvious example, because they take resources and knowledge to manufacture, and are physical objects that can be tracked. Taking these away by law works. But encryption isn't a physical objec…

That's oversimplifying it. Banning encryption is a form of censorship (because words don't need to be manufactured), and censorship, as far, as I can tell, does have an effect.

For example, criminals who abuse children to produce pornography aren't going to follow laws against having child pornography. Does it follow that laws against the posession of child pornography have no effect in curbing abuse?

I think they do. Being seen with child pornography is a huge red flag indicating that you might be an abuser. Plus, the demand is lower. I see no reason this couldn't apply to encryption too.