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Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

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Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#11

Post by c1ccccc1 »

charcircuit wrote: post #2

>Are you "hiding" when you lock the door of your home every day, just because the government is not permitted to enter it without a warrant If this is your reason then I would say you are trying to hide. >Is it "hiding" to seal the envelope of the card you're sending your Valentine? Yes, the point is to keep it a surprise. >helps protect queer youth from intolerant violence (at home and abroad, as in Ghana). E2EE doe…

Even if most people don't have the technical chops spy on traffic themselves, I can imagine a world where there are companies that provide such things as products / services. (Probably there are already a few companies like this, I haven't checked.) For example one might be able buy a gizmo with an antenna that listens in on people's wifi and mobile connections. If end to end encryption was banned, I'm guessing that spying on that non-encrypted traffic would take about $50 and an afternoon of setup, and would not require any special skills.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#12

Post by r283492 »

The government arguments against encryption are so ridiculous, but we need articulate explanations like this to help refute them.

They remind me of things like: if you don't vote to ban driving, you must want children to die. After all, driving a leading cause of death among children.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#13

Post by _bfhp »

charcircuit wrote: post #7
happytoexplain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are comparing to the word "hide" in the context authorities use it, e.g. "nothing to hide". They are not drawing comparisons using the word generically, and they make this explicit. Your two assertions seem to ignore this (i.e. it seems like you're "playing word games").

At least with locking your door because you are afraid the government is going to break in to your house without a warrant is the same. If someone is doing this either they have done something illegal, e.g. "have something to hide", or they are have a mental issue where they have problems with trust and are overly paranoid.

What is an example of a right that you think people should have (by law), which constrains the government in some way?

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#14

Post by charcircuit »

c1ccccc1 wrote: post #11
charcircuit wrote: post #2

>Are you "hiding" when you lock the door of your home every day, just because the government is not permitted to enter it without a warrant If this is your reason then I would say you are trying to hide. >Is it "hiding" to seal the envelope of the card you're sending your Valentine? Yes, the point is to keep it a surprise. >helps protect queer youth from intolerant violence (at home and abroad, as in Ghana). E2EE doe…

Even if most people don't have the technical chops spy on traffic themselves, I can imagine a world where there are companies that provide such things as products / services. (Probably there are already a few companies like this, I haven't checked.) For example one might be able buy a gizmo with an antenna that listens in on people's wifi and mobile connections. If end to end encryption was banned, I'm guessing that…

Thankfully with the mass adoption of HTTPS most messages are going to be encrypted over the person's network you are using.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#15

Post by judge2020 »

charcircuit wrote: post #7
happytoexplain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are comparing to the word "hide" in the context authorities use it, e.g. "nothing to hide". They are not drawing comparisons using the word generically, and they make this explicit. Your two assertions seem to ignore this (i.e. it seems like you're "playing word games").

At least with locking your door because you are afraid the government is going to break in to your house without a warrant is the same. If someone is doing this either they have done something illegal, e.g. "have something to hide", or they are have a mental issue where they have problems with trust and are overly paranoid.

Everyone has something to hide from public view, at least in the sense that you don't want anyone (government or civilian burglar) being able to steal your stuff or know what sort of stuff you have on your hard drive. And by everyone, I include regular people who might have a regular desktop or laptop without disk encryption.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#16

Post by charcircuit »

_bfhp wrote: post #13
charcircuit wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least with locking your door because you are afraid the government is going to break in to your house without a warrant is the same. If someone is doing this either they have done something illegal, e.g. "have something to hide", or they are have a mental issue where they have problems with trust and are overly paranoid.

What is an example of a right that you think people should have (by law), which constrains the government in some way?

The right to not be randomly murdered by the government.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#17

Post by galangalalgol »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

I don’t feel the FSF’s statement benefits the movement against this bill as much as the EFF or ACLU or Fight for the Future statements. The FSF is stuck in the 80s on everything - whether it be dealing with Stallman or specifying acceptable ways to load firmware, and has failed to accomplish almost anything since GPLv3 in 2006. And after recent events, I’d almost consider dismissing them from involvement in the movem…

could you explain your firmware comment?

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#18

Post by charcircuit »

judge2020 wrote: post #15
charcircuit wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least with locking your door because you are afraid the government is going to break in to your house without a warrant is the same. If someone is doing this either they have done something illegal, e.g. "have something to hide", or they are have a mental issue where they have problems with trust and are overly paranoid.

Everyone has something to hide from public view, at least in the sense that you don't want anyone (government or civilian burglar) being able to steal your stuff or know what sort of stuff you have on your hard drive. And by everyone, I include regular people who might have a regular desktop or laptop without disk encryption.

>Everyone has something to hide from public view

But we aren't talking about making something public. We are only talking about a case where the government already has a warrant.

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#19

Post by gjsman-1000 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #17
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

I don’t feel the FSF’s statement benefits the movement against this bill as much as the EFF or ACLU or Fight for the Future statements. The FSF is stuck in the 80s on everything - whether it be dealing with Stallman or specifying acceptable ways to load firmware, and has failed to accomplish almost anything since GPLv3 in 2006. And after recent events, I’d almost consider dismissing them from involvement in the movem…

could you explain your firmware comment?

You can ask @marcan42 who is porting Linux to Apple Silicon for more information.

https://mobile.twitter.com/marcan42/status/10406262109994311...

Re: Earn-IT threatens encryption and therefore user freedom

#20

Post by vitiral »

I feel like they missed the primary point which is that E2E encryption is the primary thing protecting everyone from hackers/criminals/other-governments. Without it the criminals WILL have access to your systems and data and then you can basically say goodbye to anything being valuable at all.

Locking your door at night is a poor metaphor. A criminal can literally infiltrate and search through every unsecured computer connected to the internet in a matter of minutes and using almost no resources and with little risk. This drastically diverges from physical assets.

Making encryption illegal will ensure that only criminals use it, thus making only criminals safe online.

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