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DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

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Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#611

Post by nerdponx »

bena wrote: post #497
kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say a good search engine should try to deliver the results the user is looking for. Simple as that. It probably can never be perfect, as the search engine can only guess what the user is looking for. But it can try to do its best. There is no rule that it should rank sites by page rank or number of keywords or whatever. If I don't want to see "Russian Disinformation", I probably won't search for it to begin with.…

I think you're framing the discussion in the wrong way. Yes, if you're looking for "Russian Disinformation", you should be able to find it. But if I'm looking for "U.S. midterm elections", I shouldn't get Russian disinformation. What is the problem with modifying the algorithm to favor actual information over disinformation? Or sites that are known to propagate disinformation? The only thing I could say is that it's…

The problem is not "U.S. midterm elections" but "Ukraine invasion 2022".

Part of the problem is that defining "relevance" is hard, and quickly descends into gray areas and morality. Russian disinformation about Ukraine is relevant in that it actually is content about the Ukraine invasion in 2022. But it's not relevant in that it's not facts about the Ukraine invasion in 2022.

Maybe there should be a button that lets users opt-out of "factual only" results to see the full uncensored internet, much like how there is a button that lets users opt-out of porn filters.

For that matter, we should have more filters, but users should be able to see what they are and opt out of them manually. Porn, violence, suspected "disinformation" and conspiracy theories, etc. I would love to have all of these turned off by default, but be able to re-enable them selectively.

Of course, that means you still have the problem where one organization (or a handful of organizations) gets to dictate what is considered "disinformation", but that's arguably a separate problem from not letting users control their experience.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#613

Post by tonguez »

hackyhacky wrote: post #71
fuckcensorship wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, what's so bad about access to "disinformation"? This is an excellent point that doesn’t get as much discussion as it deserves. Censorship of misinformation seems to be rooted in the idea that the masses cannot/should not have the freedom to think and discuss information freely. Also, there is a great deal of valuable insight which can be gained by analyzing a country’s propaganda.

There is great value in analyzing propaganda if you know it's propaganda. The danger comes in the fact that the majority of people can't distinguish actual reporting from disinformation. That's why it gets down-ranked.

the problem is the stuff getting downranked is going to be the real information. the powerful people who control everything, including the news, are going to push propaganda and censor in whatever way makes themselves richer at the expense of everybody else, which is how they got to be in that position in the first place

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#614

Post by Clubber »

crayboff wrote: post #597
HeckFeck wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this move by DDG will have the opposite effect of what is intended. I will now trust my own media and sources even less, if they rely on silencing the competition and insist on controlling what I access "for my own good". Such dirty tactics are insulting, even more so when delivered under a sneering benevolent guise. As if they have perfect knowledge of my motives and wishes. What if I'm genuinely curious as…

I've been waffling between whether or not I think this is a good thing. I am curious on your thoughts: A lot of malicious actors have learned how to game the search ranking algorithms by making carefully crafted lies that are easily spread as truths online quickly. They are able to get their fake news to spread (and this rank higher) in ways that legitimate sources can't. Most people only ever look at the first page…

>Most people only ever look at the first page of results when searching for answers, and, let's be honest, take those answers for the truth.

Do you? The argument I'm hearing is that most people are stupid and those stupid people aren't smart enough to know better, so the smart people need to control their lives to "protect them." I'm not sure if you realize this but this was the same argument used to perpetuate slavery.

Edit: Elaborated my argument.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#615

Post by hfsh »

uejfiweun wrote: post #3

I like DDG, but honestly, this is a really bad move. It is already harder for me to find certain sites in the rankings. I mean look at this, even searching for "drudge" doesn't even bring up a link to Drudge Report: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drudge&t=h_&ia=web I liked DDG because it respected the user. Limiting what I can see in order to make sure I don't see "Russian disinformation" seems to me like the exact opposi…

> I liked DDG because it respected the user.

Unless you were searching for anything recipe-related, in which case they will push results from their partner 'yummly'. Or if you were trying to get literal result from you search string, which it will apparently silently ignore if it doesn't find enough results.

Honestly, I'll dump DDG in a heartbeat whenever I find something even marginally better. Their only edge is the '!' syntax which I haven't yet bothered to find an independent solution for.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#616

Post by Clubber »

santoshalper wrote: post #556
tomc1985 wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like you're advocating for pushing censorship responsibility to the user. It is really irresponsible to be phrasing censorship as a "responsibility". Censorship is a tool of the weak and simple-minded so that they can maintain the illusions of a shared reality promulgated by whoever is in charge. The only responsibility should be towards the free and unadulterated flow of information, and yes, it is the i…

"My only exception is things I don't like" How is blocking spam and advertisement materially different than blocking a foreign actor's propaganda?

Blocking spam is done by the consumer of information, blocking a foreign (and domestic) actor's propaganda is done by the entity with the power of dissemination of information.

You don't see Google censoring ads much.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#617

Post by pasquinelli »

kube-system wrote: post #326
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in Russia and DDG isn't limiting their distortion to Russian visitors to their site.

They weren't suggesting otherwise. They were suggesting that Russia's disinformation campaign has been particularly egregious and intentional.

isn't that whataboutism?

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#618

Post by tonguez »

mrjangles wrote: post #20

Seriously what the f*ck makes Gabriel Weinberg think that myself, or anyone else, gives a damn about his personal opinion on what I should and should not be reading. The arrogance of these people is astounding. Also, absolutely zero of the standard base of Duck Duck Go users are the kind of people who don't understand what a Russian state controlled news site is, and why one would have to be careful reading it. Those…

“ Seriously what the f*ck makes Gabriel Weinberg think that myself, or anyone else, gives a damn about his personal opinion on what I should and should not be reading.”

he doesn’t care, he’s just another rich baby that needs to project his own stupidity onto the workers whose labor creates his upper class lifestyle

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#619

Post by hedora »

soueuls wrote: post #553
hedora wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how most of the comments here are complaining about how this proves there is western media bias. One of the main goals of the current Russian propaganda push in the US is to get people to lose confidence in reliable news outlets. They want us to believe that our best news outlets are equivalent to their basement troll farms that just fabricate stories day in and out. The two are not the same. Giving equal per s…

Western media helped start a war with Irak based on fake weapons of mass destruction. If people lost trust on Western medias, it's not because of Russians, it's because we are constantly producing propaganda as well. It's just different.

The western media is not a monolith. Fox News was the primary source running the fake WMD story, and is the only mainstream outlet running pro Russian opinion pieces.

They're also foreign owned, and promote policies that would prevent people from voting, allow counts to be ignored.

Since they're Australian, they're not even geographically "western".

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#620

Post by tonguez »

awb wrote: post #331
AmVess wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just murdered any goodwill they had built up. I just switched to Yandex (Russian search). At least Yandex doesn't pretend to be something that it isn't.

What? Do you do this in other elements of your life? “I’m not going to drink this veggie smoothie because they started adding honey and I don’t think sugar is healthy. I’m going to drink soda where at least they don’t try to hide that you’re drinking sugar.”

censorship is not a veggie smoothie. stopped reading there
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