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DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

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Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#491
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what all of the talk about mass psychosis is even trying to say and the video about it that went viral feels a bit...manufactured?

I’m sure there’s a term for it, but it’s saying something that could be true without providing data or any accountability kind of like a horoscope. “People seem much more X than they did Y years ago.” The power of suggestion makes you start noticing all the examples of X in the last Y years.

That's the exact feeling I got from it. It says nothing and can be broadly applied to anything with philosopher quotes sprinkled in.

The comments also seemed less than genuine and the source of the material is anonymous.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#492
post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this move by DDG will have the opposite effect of what is intended. I will now trust my own media and sources even less, if they rely on silencing the competition and insist on controlling what I access "for my own good". Such dirty tactics are insulting, even more so when delivered under a sneering benevolent guise. As if they have perfect knowledge of my motives and wishes. What if I'm genuinely curious as…

What I really want is to have a setting where I can turn these kinds of filters on and off, or to different/customized priorities. Search is a tool for me to use: give me better control of the results that I can get. Choosing between different ranking algorithms would be wonderful too, to skip around different SEO strategies

It sounds like you're advocating for pushing censorship responsibility to the user. I agree this would be nice — in fact you could consider uBlock Origin a form of client-side censorship that already exists. In practice, I'm not sure how much adoption such a system would get, if used for censorship purposes. The main problem is the underlying truth that most censorship proponents are not actually pro-censorship of the information _they_ consume — they're pro-censorship of the information _other_ people consume.

Even if you _could_ find a user who wants their client to hide information from them, that user probably doesn't want to filter their own spam, too. By default, the client already expects the server to fulfill a gatekeeping role in filtering (censoring!) spam. In fact, this is how we got here in the first place – we delegated filtering mechanisms to service providers, and now they're simply expanding the filter.

Personally, I'm in favor of a simple but likely effective regulation: Any service that renders a feed of third-party content to the user must default to sorting the feed in reverse chronological order, and must reset all current users to this default on the day the legislation goes into effect. Of course, this only mitigates the feed-based, mostly social-media problem — it doesn't solve the issues with search results (or auto-complete suggestions, for that matter). For search results, a client-based model wouldn't scale, as client preferences need to be evaluated at time of indexing, not when returning results.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole Ukraine war teached me a thing I haven't noticed before: I simply can't trust ANY media, search engine, or social network anymore. It's a sad state of affairs, but since the invasion started my only source of "news" related to the war is a few, and I a said a FEW, Youtube channels. I'm brazilian and one channel I recommend is Fernando Ulrich's channel. He interviewed (in english) a lot people (ukrainians,…

> I simply can't trust ANY media, search engine, or social network anymore. No, you can't. It really comes down to a choice of which unhinged violent group of psychopaths do you want to believe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqKfSbhm6yo This is a great explanation of the anarchist perspective. Great quote: "Ukraine has been this mess for many many many years of people arguing about which of authoritarian control fr…

Choosing who sociopath to believe is way down the road (and in my opinion not necessary in the end to "believe" anyone, you ideally have your judgement to filter out the noise and get the however little information). The step we still have not gotten past is to be able to listen to all the psychopaths in the first place. At this moment, the psychopath with the most strength near you prohibits other psychopaths from being heard at all.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a conspiracy (few things are because they just don't scale well). It's more what I call "assholes with similar motives/incentives." It has a lot of the appearance of coordination without needing secret meetings in smoke-filled rooms. That said, sometimes it actually is coordination. Just look at the JournoList scandal.

Isn't the "JournoList scandal" just "There was a Google Group that lots of journalists on the left subscribed to?" Journalists have always talked to each other. The fact that we have an auditable mailing list of one instance of it just tells us something we already know.

"If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they've put upon us. Instead, take one of them – Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares – and call them racists"

Yes, that sounds like journalists just "talking to each other."

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A search engine should have ranking factors that tie to the end goal of providing the most relevant results to their users. However this decision is about unilaterally down-ranking a subset of results because of the political view expressed on them (if it was about misinformation than surely they would want to down-rank all misinformation equally - if they had capability to do so in the first place). This is at the s…

> if it was about misinformation than surely they would want to down-rank all misinformation equally - if they had capability to do so in the first place They don't have that capability. DuckDuckGo also doesn't have the capability to surface only correct JS code when I search for a programming concept. There isn't a binary here, all manual upranking and downranking of any content is always playing whack-a-mole, none…

"search engines don't base rankings off of tlds"

Of course they do. By country: so .ca will rank better in Canada$and .in India by domain rank .com ranks higher than .biz

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#497
post #290

Suppose I go off and make a search engine, with my own algorithm for ranking search results. At first it works great. And then five years later, I find that, by a quirk in my algorithm, I find that a new site has risen to the top of all my results. This new site was created as a prank, and it contains authoritative-sounding but incorrect answers to common questions. The results returned are still relevant to my users…

I'd say a good search engine should try to deliver the results the user is looking for. Simple as that. It probably can never be perfect, as the search engine can only guess what the user is looking for. But it can try to do its best. There is no rule that it should rank sites by page rank or number of keywords or whatever. If I don't want to see "Russian Disinformation", I probably won't search for it to begin with.…

I think you're framing the discussion in the wrong way.

Yes, if you're looking for "Russian Disinformation", you should be able to find it.

But if I'm looking for "U.S. midterm elections", I shouldn't get Russian disinformation.

What is the problem with modifying the algorithm to favor actual information over disinformation? Or sites that are known to propagate disinformation?

The only thing I could say is that it's weirdly specific to Russian disinformation. Disinformation should be disfavored no matter the country of origin.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#498
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So like, what, everyones keeping this big secret and its just schlubs like you and me kept in the dark?

I don't think it's some kind of backroom secret that most media, US, Russian, or otherwise, is utter shit. It should be pretty evident from looking at its coverage of any subject of which you have a better-than-average understanding of, or from contrasting how media produced in different parts of the world looks at the same exact events. Or even from applying a little bit of critical thinking. From looking at what it…

If you compare mainstream Russian media to mainstream US media and come to the conclusion that they're equally "utter shit", then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: DuckDuckGo “down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation”

#500

I like DDG, but honestly, this is a really bad move. It is already harder for me to find certain sites in the rankings. I mean look at this, even searching for "drudge" doesn't even bring up a link to Drudge Report: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drudge&t=h_&ia=web I liked DDG because it respected the user. Limiting what I can see in order to make sure I don't see "Russian disinformation" seems to me like the exact opposi…

Drudge was literally the first link in my results. Haha.

I can almost assure you it wasn't. I'm guessing the top result is

> drudge.com

Which is not the Drudge Report, but the Drudge "Retort". The Drudge Report, seems to be completely removed, obviously intentionally.

If I'm wrong, let me know. But I'd be very surprised if you're getting the Drudge Report at the top hit, and everybody else isn't getting it on the first multiple pages.

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