The Lie That Made Me • Hacker News Board

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#21

Post by drewcoo » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 7:55 PM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #14

anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly a little worried about the social fracturing that could happen as genetic and paternity testing get increasingly cheap and ubiquitous. My intuition is that infidelity and paternity fraud is wildly more common than anyone wants to believe, and old social orders will break down as it becomes impossible to ignore and trivial for even light suspicions to be validated. I have to believe it's good in the long…

There was a study that showed that cuckoldry was pretty rare, the rate was around 1-2%[0]: "Reading the internet, or even perusing the scientific literature, you'd get the idea that people are constantly cheating on their spouses. Indeed, scientists have estimated that anywhere from 10-30 percent of men are unknowingly raising children who are not their own. This situation is referred to as cuckoldry, or scientifical…

Considering nobody ever considers it, 1-2% is huge! 1 in every 50-100 families. How many people from different families do you know?

Even if your family isn't one of affected, I'd bet you know several people from affected families.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#22

Post by anonporridge » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 8:01 PM UTC

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #20

anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly a little worried about the social fracturing that could happen as genetic and paternity testing get increasingly cheap and ubiquitous. My intuition is that infidelity and paternity fraud is wildly more common than anyone wants to believe, and old social orders will break down as it becomes impossible to ignore and trivial for even light suspicions to be validated. I have to believe it's good in the long…

Better to rip off the bandaid, honestly. Rather than old social orders breaking down, I think we'll see some of them strengthened , as the reasons for their institution in the first place get harder to ignore.

100% agree. Society is stronger if we don't build structures as important as families on a foundation of lies.

Hell, I personally believe paternity testing should be damn near mandated and routine for every birth before the father is allowed to sign the birth certificate. It would make every family stronger by removing any possible doubt of fidelity and responsibility.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#23

Post by quirkot » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #19

kryptiskt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a study that showed that cuckoldry was pretty rare, the rate was around 1-2%[0]: "Reading the internet, or even perusing the scientific literature, you'd get the idea that people are constantly cheating on their spouses. Indeed, scientists have estimated that anywhere from 10-30 percent of men are unknowingly raising children who are not their own. This situation is referred to as cuckoldry, or scientifical…

I'd love for this to be true, but it does conflict with various state policy decisions on the matter that seem to indicate at least a belief in the opposite. France's policy is particularly striking, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_paternity_testing#France It is possible that state institutions make these policies based exactly on my assumption above, which seems like it could be incorrect. Or perhaps even 1-2% is…

In France, when you get married or have a kid you get a family book and it is the official record of your family. If you don't put a kid in, they don't have the same rights and vice versa. Really leans into the "family is a social construct" angle

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#24

Post by anonporridge » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 8:30 PM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #21

kryptiskt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a study that showed that cuckoldry was pretty rare, the rate was around 1-2%[0]: "Reading the internet, or even perusing the scientific literature, you'd get the idea that people are constantly cheating on their spouses. Indeed, scientists have estimated that anywhere from 10-30 percent of men are unknowingly raising children who are not their own. This situation is referred to as cuckoldry, or scientifical…

Considering nobody ever considers it, 1-2% is huge! 1 in every 50-100 families. How many people from different families do you know? Even if your family isn't one of affected, I'd bet you know several people from affected families.

There are about 120 million households in the US. Lets assume that approximately 100 million are parental households with children (either still dependents or grown and independent).

We're talking at least 1-2 million families that could be affected by paternity fraud in the US alone. That has the potential to be massively disruptive if exposed to these 1-2 million families.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#25

Post by brimble » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 8:34 PM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #21

kryptiskt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a study that showed that cuckoldry was pretty rare, the rate was around 1-2%[0]: "Reading the internet, or even perusing the scientific literature, you'd get the idea that people are constantly cheating on their spouses. Indeed, scientists have estimated that anywhere from 10-30 percent of men are unknowingly raising children who are not their own. This situation is referred to as cuckoldry, or scientifical…

Considering nobody ever considers it, 1-2% is huge! 1 in every 50-100 families. How many people from different families do you know? Even if your family isn't one of affected, I'd bet you know several people from affected families.

Further, if those rates are similar across time and roughly evenly distributed among populations, it means that carefully-researched family tree your aunt (or whoever) has spent so much time working on gets unreliable (as far as biological parentage) fast, the more generations you go back. "Look, I'm distantly related to [famous person]!" Well... maybe.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#26

Post by CPLX » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 9:02 PM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #14

anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly a little worried about the social fracturing that could happen as genetic and paternity testing get increasingly cheap and ubiquitous. My intuition is that infidelity and paternity fraud is wildly more common than anyone wants to believe, and old social orders will break down as it becomes impossible to ignore and trivial for even light suspicions to be validated. I have to believe it's good in the long…

There was a study that showed that cuckoldry was pretty rare, the rate was around 1-2%[0]: "Reading the internet, or even perusing the scientific literature, you'd get the idea that people are constantly cheating on their spouses. Indeed, scientists have estimated that anywhere from 10-30 percent of men are unknowingly raising children who are not their own. This situation is referred to as cuckoldry, or scientifical…

That's a massive number. It means that basically every time you go out to dinner you're in the room with someone who doesn't know that their father isn't their father.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#27

Post by madrox » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

This is so incredibly sad. At this point in my life, I empathize with the involuntary donor quite a bit. While the author might not understand his position not wanting her to have any contact with him or his family, I certainly do.

It's clear this doctor has a pattern of deceptive behavior beyond merely his practice. It's also clear that if one doctor does it, someone else has or will. I wonder how the medical board can better filter out chronic deceivers or at least better regulate it.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#28

Post by madrox » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #18

While that doctor's behavior was indeed utterly unacceptable, I'm not sure I understand the insistence on figuring out which sperm donation got you pregnant (if you're the mother) or who exactly your biological father is. A hundred men donate sperm at some clinic, and then went on with their lives. If it were me, I doubt I would want to pick out one of them and try to pull them into my life. He hasn't done something…

If you're a certain kind of person who is either lonely or lost in life, it's a mission with a purpose whose reward may be a connection that makes you feel less alone. Readinging between the lines of this article, it sounds like this author may be a bit of both.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#29

Post by stickfigure » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #18

While that doctor's behavior was indeed utterly unacceptable, I'm not sure I understand the insistence on figuring out which sperm donation got you pregnant (if you're the mother) or who exactly your biological father is. A hundred men donate sperm at some clinic, and then went on with their lives. If it were me, I doubt I would want to pick out one of them and try to pull them into my life. He hasn't done something…

Agreed, it seems odd to have a strong emotional reaction to the discovery that your father is Donor #3855 instead of Donor #2291.

On the other hand, inheriting celiac is pretty awful.

Re: The Lie That Made Me

#30

Post by madrox » Wed, Mar 09, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #11

tomrod wrote: post #9

23andMe and similar services, though creepy to a degree to have your genetic information linked and profiled, have spawned a minor industry of social and familial alignment. Half-siblings and half-aunts/uncles are being found to be more common than people realized. The convergence of technology and society is fascinating. This was an interested read on the mispractice of a fertility doctor.

I'm honestly a little worried about the social fracturing that could happen as genetic and paternity testing get increasingly cheap and ubiquitous. My intuition is that infidelity and paternity fraud is wildly more common than anyone wants to believe, and old social orders will break down as it becomes impossible to ignore and trivial for even light suspicions to be validated. I have to believe it's good in the long…

"That which can be destroyed by the truth should be" and all that.

Any time there's discussions of this kind, though, it feels like a slippery slope to Gattaca. If you think about it, in many ways the urge for your genes to be the ones that make it are one of the only things holding us back from a genetically engineered society and genetic discrimination.