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China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

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Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> notwithstanding that Taiwanese people see themselves as independent. It isn’t that cut and dry. Most Taiwanese people prefer the status quo, surely by no small measure due to the fact that an outright declaration of independence would provoke China, but still, people who paint the picture as black and white like you have are either advancing an agenda or simply ignorant of the facts on the ground in Taiwan.

> Most Taiwanese people prefer the status quo The status quo is that they are independent, see themselves as independent, but simply haven't made some outright declaration. It can both be true that they see themselves as already being independent, and also that they don't want to make an outright declaration. Specifically, the ruling party has said that they don't need to make an outright declaration, because they ar…

That is the view of their current president and ruling party, yes.

It is not the position of the opposition party, nor does it align with historical precedents. Treating it as the official policy of Taiwan without a higher level of support such as a popular referendum, proclamation, or amendment to the ROC constitution doesn’t pass the smell test (what happens if the KMT comes back into power? Is Taiwan no longer independent?). No major country outside of Taiwan recognizes it as an independent nation for a reason.

I should note that I am personally supportive of the idea of an independent Taiwan, but I’m also able to check my western bias.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#252
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Nobody except deluded tankies About a billion of these "deluded tankies" live in China. > Russia does formally recognize them as a nation Formal recognitions aside, but if you go anywhere from the Russian extreme left (e.g. Gorbachev) to the Russian extreme right (e.g. Solzhenitsyn), there's one thing they agree upon: they all think Ukraine is historically tied to Russia. Like it or not, there is a wide consensus i…

>About a billion of these "deluded tankies" live in China.

Yup. Although generally I reserve the term for those that come online to spout the propaganda. I suppose most are doing that within the sinosphere part of the internet.

>Formal recognitions aside, but if you go anywhere from the Russian extreme left (e.g. Gorbachev) to the Russian extreme right (e.g. Solzhenitsyn), there's one thing they agree upon: they all think Ukraine is historically tied to Russia. Like it or not, there is a wide consensus in Russia with regards to that.

>It has served Russian policy since the 90's to have Ukraine and Belarus as independent states, since 3 votes in the UN are better than one.

100% agree. I think the real reason Russia is doing this is because they see Ukraine as part of their sphere of influence and Ukrainians taking another path is unacceptable. For Russian leadership, its a case of exerting leverage and control on the states that have been "traditionally" under their thumb, this dates back through the communist era to Imperial Russia and even before in some cases. Its a very old and deep rooted notion.

For the average Russian I wouldn't be surprised if state media have convinced them of the average Ukrainian supporting Russia's invasion, as their outside propaganda claims.

I actually see a lot of parallels between this and how the US has handled stuff in its own backyard. There is a history of the US supporting tin pot dictators simply because the dictator was willing to play ball and the people of the nation overthrowing them. And then there's the banana wars.

I'd like to think we've grown out of that. But that's probably not the case. There is definitely still some intervention in central and south America mostly as part of the war on drugs, but that's not to the same degree as in the past .

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#253
post #161

>Good WSJ article on Russia vs. China. In a nutshell, China miscalculated the situation. They will likely look to limit their bet (on Russia) for fear of becoming Russia 2.0 to the West. [1] The tweet is from Neil Cybart and WSJ. You may know him as one of the more accurate Apple analysts. And most people still to this day think either China miscalculated it, or China's official stance is somewhat unclear. ( Paul Gra…

> The tweet is from Neil Cybart and WSJ. You may know him as one of the more accurate Apple analysts.

I think it's a good idea not to look at Twitter OR Apple analysts to help understand the Ukraine situation. Twitter is a perfect place to get breaking news, hot takes, and memes. Apple analysts may be very intelligent people. But, I want to wait for longer, more meticulous writing by people on the ground, or people with a deep background in the domain, and a long time to think about it.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in the video, but see somebameforme’s post ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30615313 ). No need for hasty accusations of spreading misinformation.

That post you linked is itself spreading misinformation. Notice how it retreats to the argumentative "motte" of bio labs - which are not a secret - while contextually purporting to support the claim that the US is developing bio weapons in Ukraine, which itself is misinformational support for the propaganda line used domestically in Russia, that the bioweapons the US is allegedly developing in Ukraine will be used to…

The Chinese ad didn't mention bioweapons, Newsweek did. Trying to discredit a real fact (the US has biolabs in ukraine) by attacking a strawman (they didn't have bioweapons there! It'sall fake news!) is what's Newsweek is trying to do. There is a motte and Bailey here but it's not coming from the russians in this case, as opposed to what you are saying.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#255
post #161

>Good WSJ article on Russia vs. China. In a nutshell, China miscalculated the situation. They will likely look to limit their bet (on Russia) for fear of becoming Russia 2.0 to the West. [1] The tweet is from Neil Cybart and WSJ. You may know him as one of the more accurate Apple analysts. And most people still to this day think either China miscalculated it, or China's official stance is somewhat unclear. ( Paul Gra…

> And most people still to this day think either China miscalculated it, or China's official stance is somewhat unclear. ( Paul Graham )

I was actually surprised China didn’t vote against the UN Resolution by the Generally Assembly condemning Russia’s violation of the UN Charter by the use of force and violation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity.

Though China was 1 of 35 Countries to abstain on the vote, the fact that they didn’t vote against the UN Resolution with Russia and 5 other Countries speaks loudly and volumes about China’s political unwillingness to support Russia’s acts in contravention of the UN Charter.

Furthermore, China did not support Russia in a similar Resolution before the UN Security Council leaving Russia as the sole permanent member of the UN Security Council with veto power to vote against the Resolution.

If anything it looks like China’s lack of political will to expressly support Russia in the UN General Assembly and Security Council seems to have legitimately surprised Russia. However, it is very difficult to discern whether China miscalculated the response of the international community or they simply played Russia by riding both sides of the fence until push came to shove. My guess is the later as I’m sure Russia was cautiously optimistic about China’s support while simultaneously aware of the likelihood they could not count of China, and I would go so far as to say the odds are Russia even has military contingency plans in place in the instance China becomes opportunistic with respect to their own boarder disputes with Russia during the chaos.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#256
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s infuriating that the west allows itself to remain dependent on a dictatorship.

In the bigger context, we always did and still do. Even going so far to actively support some of them and not just tolerate. Especially when they were supposed to keep "communists" in check. Just some examples. Those lists are for the US but of course by no means is it exclusive to the US. - https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/02/americas-mos... (linked for the list, not for "Obama" - obviously it is indepen…

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Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#257
post #161

>Good WSJ article on Russia vs. China. In a nutshell, China miscalculated the situation. They will likely look to limit their bet (on Russia) for fear of becoming Russia 2.0 to the West. [1] The tweet is from Neil Cybart and WSJ. You may know him as one of the more accurate Apple analysts. And most people still to this day think either China miscalculated it, or China's official stance is somewhat unclear. ( Paul Gra…

>They will likely look to limit their bet

By opening their whole economy and supply chains to Russia? Niel sounds clueless from the claim you posted.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think China could do anything about the attack itself (besides pushing it back into the mud...). This way the Taiwan development isn't anything they could change. It will wear off though and doesn't really change anything about the whole situation. In return they get to see what the West will do and what they'd do if China would to attack Taiwan. They get the cheap resources OP mentioned above, they get anoth…

I don’t know how many times this has to be said, but the situations with Taiwan and Ukraine are in no way similar. The US has no formal alliance, or guarantees, with Ukraine. The US not rushing to defend them is not proof they won’t defend Taiwan (for one thing Taiwan is vital to the American military as a chip manufacturer.)

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Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think China could do anything about the attack itself (besides pushing it back into the mud...). This way the Taiwan development isn't anything they could change. It will wear off though and doesn't really change anything about the whole situation. In return they get to see what the West will do and what they'd do if China would to attack Taiwan. They get the cheap resources OP mentioned above, they get anoth…

I don’t know how many times this has to be said, but the situations with Taiwan and Ukraine are in no way similar. The US has no formal alliance, or guarantees, with Ukraine. The US not rushing to defend them is not proof they won’t defend Taiwan (for one thing Taiwan is vital to the American military as a chip manufacturer.)

Taiwan is extremely important militarily for the US besides chip manufacturing. First the US has an early warning radar for detecting a (nuclear) ballistic missile attack installed in Tawain [1] and Taiwan is a key strategic part in the in a war against China [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAVE_PAWS#In_Taiwanese_service

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_island_chain#United_Stat...

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone say strawman? Having labs is not equal to having bioweapons

The CGTN article doesn't claim bioweapons. It's Newsweek who said they did and build that strawman. edit: removed snark

So why would they mention a "biolab" in Ukraine unless to imply that it somehow poses a threat to Russia? Or did they also mention that there are post offices in Ukraine?
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