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The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

chrisnorstrom.com

41–50 of 138 posts

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#41

The density in cul-de-sac neighborhoods is still too low to make it possible for residents to get to any of the basic services they need (school, grocery, etc) without driving. Adding a few roads to shave a mile or two off a commute or trip the store isn't going to make much of a difference. Our (american) cities desperately need urban growth boundaries to force density.

Why are you/we trying to force density when it's so obvious that most people want the exact opposite? [edit] I had in a house in a great neighborhood in the city within walking distance of grocery, restaurants, buses, etc., and I still moved to the suburbs. Obviously density's not the only thing people want.

Is it obvious? Do the majority of the public understand the value of a well planned community or have the option to participate in one? Being walking distance to a grocery store is not the same thing as living in a transit-oriented region and living your entire life without dependence on a car. Suburbs were born from industry, not out of the realization of American's idealized community.

I live in downtown Portland, OR and have done so for the last eight years without ever owning a car. I can walk or bike to literally everything in the city, or alternatively take a streetcar, light rail train, or technologically advanced bus system. There's a reason people move here – there's value in Urban Growth Boundaries (UGBs) that make more livable, walkable, awesome places to live your life.

And because of the UGB, it's even faster to escape the city's limits and find yourself in real green space. On Tuesday after work, I drove 45 minutes (using a car-sharing program) out of the city to a national wilderness where I slept under the stars, caught a few trout, and still made it back into the city for work the next morning. Something like that might be difficult in LA or in a large suburb.

As you can see, I really really disagree with you. :)

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#42

The density in cul-de-sac neighborhoods is still too low to make it possible for residents to get to any of the basic services they need (school, grocery, etc) without driving. Adding a few roads to shave a mile or two off a commute or trip the store isn't going to make much of a difference. Our (american) cities desperately need urban growth boundaries to force density.

Why are you/we trying to force density when it's so obvious that most people want the exact opposite? [edit] I had in a house in a great neighborhood in the city within walking distance of grocery, restaurants, buses, etc., and I still moved to the suburbs. Obviously density's not the only thing people want.

Hey, if you're willing to shoulder the true costs of that style of living -- environmentally, that's at least air pollution, and runoff from increased paving and lawns replacing woods and fields; then there's the cost of building out utilities, which you'll share with far fewer people in the exurbs -- then I guess you can. I suspect that far fewer people can truly afford suburban density than our current setup has allowed.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#43

The density in cul-de-sac neighborhoods is still too low to make it possible for residents to get to any of the basic services they need (school, grocery, etc) without driving. Adding a few roads to shave a mile or two off a commute or trip the store isn't going to make much of a difference. Our (american) cities desperately need urban growth boundaries to force density.

Why are you/we trying to force density when it's so obvious that most people want the exact opposite? [edit] I had in a house in a great neighborhood in the city within walking distance of grocery, restaurants, buses, etc., and I still moved to the suburbs. Obviously density's not the only thing people want.

People respond to incentives. Urban misgovernment and subsidies for suburbs (chiefly the freeways) create a particular set of circumstances that force sparsity.

The fact is, the rising cost of energy, especially petroleum, makes large scale suburbia unsustainable. Public policy needs to reflect this.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#44

Can anyone else see the article? I'm getting redirected to http://127.0.0.1/2011/10/the-great-cul-de-sac-problem-and-ho...

You guys crashed my 1and1 hosting. lol.

Get a less terrible provider. Serving a static HTML page to only ten thousand people is not hard.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#45

Can anyone else see the article? I'm getting redirected to http://127.0.0.1/2011/10/the-great-cul-de-sac-problem-and-ho...

You guys crashed my 1and1 hosting. lol.

I guess it's time to upgrade...

Congrats on getting all the traffic though!

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#46
post #11

He fails to understand the main reason that home developers want to build neighborhoods with lots of cul-de-sacs: Homes on cul-de-sacs sell for more money. The more of these you can squeeze into a given neighborhood, the more money you'll make off the development.

people will pay more for cul-de-sacs. they don't want to live on busy streets where their pets and kids are likely to wander into the street and get killed.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#47
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never understand the attraction of suburbs Low taxes. Lower cost of living. Privacy of a detached house. The lack of 'city' noise. Letting my kids play in the yard, on sidewalks. Letting my kids tear around the cul-de-sac. I've lived in the country, I've lived in the city, I've lived in the 'burbs. I prefer the latter, now. Maybe it's just me. I live in a smaller town, my commute is a five minute drive. YMMV.

To be fair. I have never lived outside of a city/town (>=200k). But living in suburbs "for the kids" (a big point of yours too) does not convince me. As a kid, I had a great time. With plenty of time outdoors too.

Kids are adaptable - I suspect any kid with a good home life is going to enjoy growing up wherever.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair. I have never lived outside of a city/town (>=200k). But living in suburbs "for the kids" (a big point of yours too) does not convince me. As a kid, I had a great time. With plenty of time outdoors too.

Do you live in North America? In most American metros to live in the city with kids you have to make enough money to easily afford expensive private school tuition. If your kid goes to the public school he will be beat up by black or hispanic gang members. This is probably 80% of the reason families rarely choose cities in America.

My wife taught at a 80% Hispanic majority high school in Dallas in the 90s. The gang violence on white kids thing just didn't happen there.

Gangs, yes. Gang violence, no.

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