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The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

chrisnorstrom.com

31–40 of 138 posts

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#31
post #18
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people can't walk on grass these days?

Is less about that and more about trespassing on a random person's property in order to get around.

i lived on a variety of cu-de-sacs until i was 30. cutting thru neighbors' yards was never considered "trespassing" in those neighborhoods, especially for kids/teens.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#32

I've lived on a dead-end street (but not a cul-de-sac), and I've lived on a regular traffic street. I definitely preferred the dead-end with the lack of traffic and noise, and ability for kids to play in the street without fear of a car going 50 down it. And people did socialize with neighbors on the dead-end street (although maybe not as much as the regular street).

I've never lived in a cul-de-sac (which btw is french for a dead-end street), but spent my childhood playing outside all the same. Narrow, one-way streets, with plenty of speed bumps. I walked to school. Currently I reside downtown, overlooking rails (the trains go quite slowly and make a noise far more agreeable than that of cars). There's a market under the rails, fruit vegtables and other foodstuffs at daytime, sm…

Space. Your own greenspace.

I live in the country now and it's even more remote, but when I lived in the 'burbs it was on a 1/2 acre lot behind a nature preserve. I could look out my living room windows and not see anything but trees -- not a neighbor in sight. My kid could climb trees, look for frogs, go "treasure hunting" all day long. The dogs could go outside without needing to be leashed, or walked. And we could have sex on the grass at night.

Much harder to do those things in the city.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#33

The density in cul-de-sac neighborhoods is still too low to make it possible for residents to get to any of the basic services they need (school, grocery, etc) without driving. Adding a few roads to shave a mile or two off a commute or trip the store isn't going to make much of a difference. Our (american) cities desperately need urban growth boundaries to force density.

Why are you/we trying to force density when it's so obvious that most people want the exact opposite? [edit] I had in a house in a great neighborhood in the city within walking distance of grocery, restaurants, buses, etc., and I still moved to the suburbs. Obviously density's not the only thing people want.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#34
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never lived in a cul-de-sac (which btw is french for a dead-end street), but spent my childhood playing outside all the same. Narrow, one-way streets, with plenty of speed bumps. I walked to school. Currently I reside downtown, overlooking rails (the trains go quite slowly and make a noise far more agreeable than that of cars). There's a market under the rails, fruit vegtables and other foodstuffs at daytime, sm…

I will never understand the attraction of suburbs Low taxes. Lower cost of living. Privacy of a detached house. The lack of 'city' noise. Letting my kids play in the yard, on sidewalks. Letting my kids tear around the cul-de-sac. I've lived in the country, I've lived in the city, I've lived in the 'burbs. I prefer the latter, now. Maybe it's just me. I live in a smaller town, my commute is a five minute drive. YMMV.

To be fair. I have never lived outside of a city/town (>=200k). But living in suburbs "for the kids" (a big point of yours too) does not convince me. As a kid, I had a great time. With plenty of time outdoors too.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#35

I've lived on a dead-end street (but not a cul-de-sac), and I've lived on a regular traffic street. I definitely preferred the dead-end with the lack of traffic and noise, and ability for kids to play in the street without fear of a car going 50 down it. And people did socialize with neighbors on the dead-end street (although maybe not as much as the regular street).

I've never lived in a cul-de-sac (which btw is french for a dead-end street), but spent my childhood playing outside all the same. Narrow, one-way streets, with plenty of speed bumps. I walked to school. Currently I reside downtown, overlooking rails (the trains go quite slowly and make a noise far more agreeable than that of cars). There's a market under the rails, fruit vegtables and other foodstuffs at daytime, sm…

> I will never understand the attraction of suburbs.

60 years of deliberate policy drove middle class people out of the cities. The forced busing is pretty emblematic of what happened.

http://www.amazon.com/Slaughter-Cities-Renewal-Ethnic-Cleans...

The other aspect is that the jobs left the cities. The two factors here were: 1) corrupt city machine politics and high taxes and fees, union problems, etc. 2) William Whyte's discovery that companies moved headquarters out closer to CEOs' estates so the CEO would have a shorter commute.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#37

My prior community did this... 50 to 60 years ago. I happened to meet one of the long-retired city council members who was part of that planning, and they chose the street layout -- a modified grid -- deliberately to prevent traffic / cars racing down the sidestreets. A few strategically placed walkways let people move between sections in pretty much a a straight line. It keeps kids off of the main thoroughfares, and…

That sounds a lot like how Vancouver's West End is laid out. Unfortunately I couldn't read the article but having experienced the situation both in a typical cul-de-sac neighbourhood and a traffic calmed neighbourhood I definitely prefer the latter.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#38
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never understand the attraction of suburbs Low taxes. Lower cost of living. Privacy of a detached house. The lack of 'city' noise. Letting my kids play in the yard, on sidewalks. Letting my kids tear around the cul-de-sac. I've lived in the country, I've lived in the city, I've lived in the 'burbs. I prefer the latter, now. Maybe it's just me. I live in a smaller town, my commute is a five minute drive. YMMV.

To be fair. I have never lived outside of a city/town (>=200k). But living in suburbs "for the kids" (a big point of yours too) does not convince me. As a kid, I had a great time. With plenty of time outdoors too.

Do you live in North America? In most American metros to live in the city with kids you have to make enough money to easily afford expensive private school tuition. If your kid goes to the public school he will be beat up by black or hispanic gang members. This is probably 80% of the reason families rarely choose cities in America.

Re: The Great Cul-De-Sac Problem And How To Alleviate It.

#40
post #11

He fails to understand the main reason that home developers want to build neighborhoods with lots of cul-de-sacs: Homes on cul-de-sacs sell for more money. The more of these you can squeeze into a given neighborhood, the more money you'll make off the development.

Also it uses less road, which means more space for homes.

Absolutely, forgot to consider that. That might be a bigger reason.
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