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Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

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191–200 of 419 posts

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#191
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Kyiv cannot hold out forever. I agree with that, but if it takes going Full Grozny or Idlib on them, what's the point, other than saving face?

You mean Alleppo. Idlib still under opposition/Turkish proxies.

Ah damn, you're right. Can't believe I mixed them up.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#192
post #76

My partners and I have a couple hundred employees in Dnipro, Ukraine. Most of the employees have relocated to Poland or western Ukraine, some are sheltering in place, some are fighting. We started to source supplies last week, especially for those who are sheltering in place or fighting. During discussions with various parties across the supply chain it became clear that an enormous effort was underway by hundreds/th…

All Ukraine has to do is:

1. Offer immediate provisional citizenship/asylum to anyone who immigrated to fight.

2. Anyone in their prisons, offer them clemency if they agree to fight (bad idea I know but it works)

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#193
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russian government knew there would be sanctions no matter what happened. They had already decided to accept those even in the event of victory. They aren't in a no-win scenario either. Kyiv cannot hold out forever. The Russians have an overwhelming numeric advantage and they can simply wait out the defenders, using that time to fix their supply lines. It's tempting to exaggerate a Russian setback into a total co…

>Kyiv cannot hold out forever. I agree with that, but if it takes going Full Grozny or Idlib on them, what's the point, other than saving face?

From the Russian perspective:

If the country wont agree to NATO neutrality, the next best outcome is destroying it so thoroughly that it will be a humanitarian disaster for decades to come.

The former is a much more attractive option to them because it would pose the lest threat. The second is still favorable to a prosperous NATO and EU member.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#194
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Putin fails in Ukraine, he'll be forced from power in Russia. He has no reason to give up and every reason to continue until he can claim at least some sort of victory.

What is clear is that Putin is highly paranoid and has been since taking power and he's willing to commit crimes against humanity to stay in power. He's already announced he is willing to use nukes if threatened and NATO will not respond unless multiple re-entry vehicles carrying nukes rain on their cities. He could do a lot here by using small scale nukes that don't create huge fallouts even. If you were Putin, does…

Putin is not that unrealistic, he knows very well that even just one nuke would make Russia a pariah state for the next 100 years at least. Even China would turn their back on them. Turning Russia into a second North Korea was never Putin's plan.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#195

Armies have momentum. Germany almost lost in 1941 when Barbarossa failed. Hitler managed to keep his armies from disintegrating, but it was a near thing. Japan's armies went far further then they had any right too in the same period, because of the perception of invincibility, higher morale, and everyone underestimating them for racial reasons. It's very clear that the Russians badly screwed up their logistics chain…

The Russian government knew there would be sanctions no matter what happened. They had already decided to accept those even in the event of victory. They aren't in a no-win scenario either. Kyiv cannot hold out forever. The Russians have an overwhelming numeric advantage and they can simply wait out the defenders, using that time to fix their supply lines. It's tempting to exaggerate a Russian setback into a total co…

They certainly knew there would be sanctions, but I don't think they estimated they would be this harsh. Almost nobody in the west even thought they'd be able to unite enough to do what's been done. These sanctions have got to be far harsher than anything they anticipated.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#196
post #162
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given what's already happened, and provided (I'm hoping) Ukraine continues to hold out as it has, both EU/NATO membership is looking very realistic and likely to occur in relatively quick order. I think settling for less would be illogical at this point.

EU membership is only possible if certain economic metrics are met, IIRC, and that is impossible to achieve while under attack or even soon after in the rebuilding phase. So to me EU membership is looking pretty far out. Why does it look realistic to you?

Treaties aren't set in stone, and novel ones can be invented. If I had to crystal-ball predict what a plausible Ukrainian victory looks like here—that is, the best likely outcome I think they might achieve on a relatively short timetable—it's a negotiated peace that gives some territorial concessions and, for face-saving for Putin/Russia, rejects Ukrainian NATO ambitions... but puts them in a quick-n-dirty EU status that grants them a security agreement of some kind, as they progress on the slower track to full EU membership.

I think if Russia backs them into fully rejecting all security agreements with the West as part of a settlement, they're just in for a takeover by other means, once Russia has its near-term concerns addressed by the peace settlement and can afford to sit back and wait. I think the most likely way out of that (assuming Ukraine achieves one) is a novel arrangement of some kind, more likely with with the EU than NATO, or (waaaay less likely) a new bloc & mutual defense agreement with Sweden and Finland.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#197

Reminds me of the time Trump won and I'd "hedged my emotions" - chucked £50 on him winning when he had 1/10 odds, so figured my friends and I could spend the £500 (that I eventually won) drink our sadness away in the pub that evening. Worked an absolute charm.

I also bet on the politician I don't want to win, with the thinking that I'll be happy either way.

But in this case there's no actually money on the line, that's not how the linked website works. (PredictIt and others won't take bets on the issue, it appears.)

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#198
post #175
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logistics of taking a country that is thousands of miles away are very different from taking one you share a border with. It took 47 days to take Kabul, counting from the first day the CIA agents were sent to prepare the invasion. Furthermore, the objective was to find bin Laden, not to take cities. The war in Ukraine isn't really comparable to Afghanistan. The US mostly "softened" strategic objectives with air s…

It wasn't logistics that caused issues in Afghanistan though.

Parent was commenting about the speed of the invasion not the general parallels between Ukraine and Afghanistan.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#199
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate on what else the West can do? No fly-zone is a non-starter

Bring back the old lend-lease program. It was basically a way to remain officially neutral while arming your allies.

The U.S. isn't officially neutral, so lend-lease is pointless in this case. The west is already overtly arming Ukraine.

Re: Prediction that Kyiv falls to Russian forces by April 2022 goes from 90% to 26%

#200
post #76

My partners and I have a couple hundred employees in Dnipro, Ukraine. Most of the employees have relocated to Poland or western Ukraine, some are sheltering in place, some are fighting. We started to source supplies last week, especially for those who are sheltering in place or fighting. During discussions with various parties across the supply chain it became clear that an enormous effort was underway by hundreds/th…

All Ukraine has to do is: 1. Offer immediate provisional citizenship/asylum to anyone who immigrated to fight. 2. Anyone in their prisons, offer them clemency if they agree to fight (bad idea I know but it works)

I'm not really sure about 1 (there are already many fighters from over the world), but they did 2. Unfortunately for this war, there aren't that many people in prisons there.
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