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Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

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Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#191

Post by inglor_cz »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #176
inglor_cz wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they will win. Their morale is very low, OSINT is full of abandoned vehicles. At this point, they are losing equipment much faster than they can produce new one, no one can churn out a dozen new military helicopters in 2 weeks. This alone will be a major source of attrition. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are getting very efficient weapons from the West and they are being replenished constantly. If Russia co…

Depends to which sources you're listening to. Reddit and EU mainstream media are filled with constant propaganda that Ukraine is holding up and Russia is suffering from sanctions and loosing the war, but if you listen to actual military experts from the likes of Mi6 and USA agencies, they are skeptical of Ukraine being able to win this and western sanctions barely changing anything in favor of the Ukraine.

I don't think you need experts to see how the Russian offensive has stalled everywhere. Even in the south they barely make any progress at all.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#192

Post by glogla »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #169
oblio wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he wins. If he's deposed, they might be dead.

I doubt his kids would be killed in Austria/Switzerland/New Zeeland. Plus, the former head of Mi6 warned not to try and corner Putin, since if he were to be personally severely threatened, he wouldn't hesitate to turn to using nuclear weapons and take the whole world down with him if he were to ever be ousted form power by the west.

"Not cornering Putin" just means giving him what he wants. It is the opposite of what we need to do - show how weak he is and let his own people give him Gaddafi ending.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#193

Post by sofixa »

331c8c71 wrote: post #94
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had family abroad (not Russia) tell me that the media there is reporting that Ukrainian paramilitary forces, including released prisoners, forcibly prevented their own citizens leaving and collapsed the humanitarian corridors[1]. And the problem is, it's actually not completely outside the realms of possiblity, and I have no way to know. As far as I'm aware, the Ukrainians are fighting the good fight, but that…

> at the media there is reporting that Ukrainian paramilitary forces ... forcibly prevented their own citizens leaving and collapsed the humanitarian corridors That's no secret, that's pretty much from official statements of Russian officials. Al Jazeera reports what both sides are saying. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/7/russian-military-con...

> That's no secret, that's pretty much from official statements of Russian officials.

As if the official statements of Russian officials are worth the toilet paper said officials use. Did you miss all the blatant bullshit they said up to and during the invasion? That it's only military exercises, that they're pulling back troops, that they're only on a small special operation, etc. Why would anyone trust them?

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#194

Post by glogla »

sofixa wrote: post #181
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends to which sources you're listening to. Reddit and EU mainstream media are filled with constant propaganda that Ukraine is holding up and Russia is suffering from sanctions and loosing the war, but if you listen to actual military experts from the likes of Mi6 and USA agencies, they are skeptical of Ukraine being able to win this and western sanctions barely changing anything in favor of the Ukraine.

That same type of expert predicted that Ukraine will barely last a few days, and cities close to Russia ( Kyiv, Kharkiv) will fall quick. They, as well as the Russians, underestimated Ukrainian resolve, and just how terrible Russian logistics and morale are.

Some people say that Russians are spent and incapable of supplying themselves and their efforts will collapse due to lack of food and fuel.

Some people say that Russians are holding back and preparing winning push.

Some people say the Russians will just try to hold what they gained so far (which is few minor cities, despite maps colored red) and try to achieve their objectives in negotiations.

Hard to say what will happen.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#195

Post by sofixa »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #151
fabian2k wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because Russia has no qualms about committing war crimes and slaughtering civilians doesn't mean we can't be outraged by this. Outrage about killing civilians is entirely justified.

Sure but depending how it is framed it has very real consequences. Just see the other post below you, cynically, already downvoted. It rallies people up in some self-righteous parallel reality cheering on the conflict quelling any voice of reason. After all there is the archetypal underdog you know and love from movies, surely the eagles will come any moment now. Ukrainians will die over the unwillingness to just tak…

> Ukrainians will die over the unwillingness to just take what ever demands Russia has now instead of in what ever time it takes to install a puppet regime in the rubble. And while some are forced to stay there due to conscription, quite a lot seem to be caught up in a nationalistic fever and delusional belief that "the West will stand with them".

They don't want to submit to tyranny and they don't want to be ruled by Moscow, let alone Putin. I wouldn't either, and i don't get who would. Why would they submit to the invader actively slaughtering their neighbours, friends, countrymen?

Most of them are aware that Russia cannot win. They cannot hope to occupy and rule Ukraine if Ukrainians don't want them to. Why submit then?

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#197

Post by MichaelRazum »

sofixa wrote: post #186
MichaelRazum wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have to distinguish. First the Arab citizens aren't treated any differently that any other citizen. Maybe the personal feelings might be that they are treated differently but definitely not on the institutional level. They are a lot of Doctors and people in high positions there, so they enjoy kind of the best life standard they could have in the middle east. "squeezed out of their land". The Hamas got unt…

Israel doesn't want East Jerusalem and isn't creating illegal settlements there and in the West Bank, while simultaneously expelling Palestinians ?

"expelling Palestinians" please provide facts. You may mean "Sheikh Jarrah", which got sued by the owners, since they don't pay the rent.

Just building settlements. So providing homes for people does't justify rockets and violence in my opinion. Settlements can be removed later if it is unacceptable for a Palestinian state to have some jew's

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#198

Post by Bancakes »

alephnan wrote: post #96
Bancakes wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lose my life. I win the 'mutual' in mutually assured destruction, and our side guarantees it.

Will you be willing to enroll in the Ukrainian or United States Army, or is this computer armchair philosophy ? At least in this way other people who didn’t volunteer their life are spared.

If my NATO homeland drafts me, I'll go. But where were going with MAD we won't need soldiers and you won't be safe either.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#199

Post by freefaler »

oblio wrote: post #105
zpeti wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is wanting to put your name in the history books not objectively rational?

Not if it kills you and not if it's infamy. Especially since he has kids, he'll be leaving them an extra bad legacy, even in his own country.

Do you know what happened to Goebbels children at the end of the war? Killed by their own parents. There is a wikipedia article about that. So we can't be certain what can parents do even when their decisions affect their own children. (sadly)

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#200

Post by sofixa »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #153
saiya-jin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a stupid suggestion to put it mildly, pardon my french. There is no deal to be signed. Unless you mean complete Ukrainian surrender, being dragged into being another Russian slave like Chechnya or Belarus. Putin doesn't accept anything less. Russia is now yet another horrible dictatorship, no reason to believe Ukraine would fare any better, in fact most probably much, much worse due to resistance to this invasion…

So what else is the goal? How many dead Ukrainians to achieve which goal in which way? Please be specific edit: I get that this sound snarky, but it will hopefully drive home the point. Unless you have a 3rd alternative to agreeing what ever the man with the nukes understands under "demilitarization and denazification" and joining a death cult with mandatory membership i dont really get what i can tell you.

> So what else is the goal? How many dead Ukrainians to achieve which goal in which way

For Russia to leave them alone, and however it takes. Russia's economy is falling apart, and their army is in brutally terrible shape. They couldn't possibly occupy the country, even if they manage to conquer it, which they don't seem to be able to do. So victory for Ukraine is certain, ultimately. It will take time and cost a lot of blood and destruction, but the alternative isn't great either - being subjugated by a brutal tyrant who has no qualms murdering those who oppose him isn't a walk in the park either.

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