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To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

sampurtill.com

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Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#31

Post by 131072 »

There is no such thing as a conservative banking job at these companies. All of these firms have strongly cyclical business, resulting in aggressive hiring and regular layoffs, and think nothing of canning an entire department if they don't need it any more. Also, at higher levels, the odds of being sacked out of the blue for political reasons increase greatly (e.g. new VP arrives, fires the next tier of management and brings his friends from his last company). Also, if you work in IT you risk being made the scapegoat for some failure outside your control (note the rating agencies trying to blame the subprime crisis on bugs in their ratings code). And if you do get canned, it's merciless - I've seen it happen to people on holiday, people who have just signed mortgages, and so on. These people are escorted from the building by security and then forgotten. You also have to contend with the risk of burnout, one of the reasons why there are relatively few employees above the age of 30.

You have to do exceptionally well to receive the grand salaries and bonuses, as these are heavily skewed towards the minority of top-ranked employees. Plus, for every 'master of the universe' there are 10 people in compliance, legal, audit, helpdesk, facilities, hr, IT, back office, etc slaving away.

Going into wall st is an aggressive career choice.

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#32

Post by logjam »

Other than the chortling about people losing jobs, I agree with this guy.

Finance and portfolio folk really create little.

They are gamblers in the basic sense: their highest goal is gaining as much as possible in return for as little as possible - the cheapest, easiest way.

It is a curious thing that as many of us grow, the less interested we are in that mindset. Our eyes start to open to the costliest, hardest way.

It's not to be found in investment banking, finance, and the market any more than it is playing the lottery.

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#33

Post by maxklein »

Are you guys not paying attention or what? The financial industry is NOT going under. It's doing fine. It's doing what coders would call a refactoring, and it is nowhere near to collapse. And the developers at those industries are certainly not getting laid off. Don't react based off 24pt headlines, first think about the real situation.

And YouNoodle is a slimey business. It may be successful, it may make a lot of money, but I still don't like this parasite businesses who contribute nothing of real value, and get created solely by marketing gimicks.

And a word to Sam: lay off the uppity behaviour till you have had a down. Nobody wants to watch a move where things just go up all the time, it's the middle of the movie, where the hero is doing wretchedly that is the heart of the story.

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#34

Post by helveticaman »

petercooper wrote: post #26
dustineichler wrote: post #5

This guy is really ignorant. It's the same mentality that thinks the valley is impervious to bubbles and inflation. What? Really, "you get the satisfaction of knowing you aren’t a complete tool bag every time you wake up in the morning."... They may have lost their jobs, but you lose at life.

Just to be fair, however, he's young. I think most of us have been there. We've taken the path less trodden (self employment, working at a startup, etc.) and we've had doubts. In order to counteract those doubts, we need to act as if the "other way" is stupid, that we're better, and that we're doing the right thing. I think that's what this guy is doing. He's young, he's confident (to a point), but he lacks the wisdo…

I think that's what this guy is doing. He's young, he's confident (to a point), but he lacks the wisdom and ability to reflect that comes with age.

All of the things you mention occurred to me by the time I was 19. There's a difference between young people who are sprinkling their brains with alkaloids[2] at raves and the young people that are sprinkling their brains with DHA, creatine, and glutamine.

I also realize that there's a delicate balance I have to reach with regard to confidence. It's not easy to reach this balance, because on the one hand, young people are treated like second-class citizens (in some circumstances), but on the other, you need to have a lot of balls to do a startup, to charge what you sholud be charging, and claim the work you do is as good as that of an older adult's. This is especially true because claiming you are equal is taken to mean arrogance, even though the evidence for the alleged inferiority of the young is lacking. In objective contests like chess, war, athletics, hacking, and mathematics, there are many very proficient people who are very young.[1] This is not the case in established corporations, politics, or the job market. Finally, people always want to feel superior to others, and while they can't express this desire for superiority by being racist or sexist, they can do so by discriminating based on age.

Sometimes behavior that is acceptable in a male 50-year-old CEO is considered unacceptable in a female of the same age or a young guy (there was a Harvard Business School study that showed something to this effect; it was a case study of a CEO that has to make certain decisions. The male was considered to be "tough but fair" or something, while the woman was considered a bitch. The case studies were identical but for the gender of the protagonist). So, would you say he's being arrogant if he were 50?

Now, is Sam being a douche? I don't know, but I do know not all young people are the same.

[1] Fidel Castro, Alexander the Great, Octavian, Bobby Fischer, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Woz, most athletes (for many reasons), Reimann, etc.

[2] NB: I'm not talking about caffeine or ritalin.

Edit: I didn't mean to get on your case, petercooper; you seemed to have said things in good faith. I guess you touched a nerve...

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#37

Post by [deleted] »

imgabe wrote: post #19
jwilliams wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is really ignorant. It's the same mentality that thinks the valley is impervious to bubbles and inflation. Yup - More than that - he thinks his limited value system applies to everyone. Maybe he's never considered people do those jobs because they like them, because they are good at it, because it's dynamic, because it's lucrative, because they think it's an essential part of our society? You know, similar r…

Sure it's dynamic and lucrative, but I think the last few months have shown that shilling securitized high risk mortgages is anything but an essential part of society.

[deleted]

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#38

Post by timr »

fallentimes wrote: post #22
dhouston wrote: post #13

does this guy really that the economy tanking is somehow any better for startups than it is for bankers?

I can't speak for Sam, but right now I'm really really glad I left my finance job to do a startup.

Well of course you are -- right now. But what happens when the finance shock ripples through the rest of the economy, and tech investments dry up? Or when tech purchases stop? Or when job losses in banking, real estate, construction and sales (coupled with high energy costs) lead to overall drops in consumption, which in turn leads to drops in advertising budgets?

It's still way too early to be whistling past the graveyard.

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#39

Post by timr »

andr wrote: post #2

1) Jobs are investment banks and asset management are not risk free and not conservative. There is almost zero job security and - as seen - you won't know you were fired until the day you are. With small startups CEOs will communicate things much better and you can usually see things coming. Case in point, Lehman UK had a fairly succesful business, however all their cash was pooled in Lehman US. So on Sunday they got…

"With small startups CEOs will communicate things much better and you can usually see things coming."

Not necessarily. More than one of my friends lost their jobs on less than 24 hours' notice during the first dot com bust.

Re: To all those guys who took the conservative banking jobs

#40

Post by timr »

hugh wrote: post #24
greendestiny wrote: post #4

The shift key really doesn't take that long to depress, I'm not sure how not using saves you time. I had the same realization, that I had better job security at a startup, when I revisited some people I left at uni doing postdocs.

Job security for postdocs? I've never heard of a postdoc losing their job. Sure, you might be only funded for a year at a time, but at least the money runs out on a predetermined date rather than unexpectedly one Friday. Maybe my experiences are just limited, though.

Problem is, it takes a lot longer to find work as a post-doc than as a programmer. The money may run out on predictable, yearly intervals, but what do you do once it's gone? Get a faculty position? (Because we all know that's easy.)
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