Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

news.ycombinator.com

81–90 of 110 posts

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#81

Software engineer from Moscow. This is an absolute disaster for us. I can't imagine how and when we recover from this. The damage already made to our country is going to be devastating, and it's not even over yet. I even envy Ukrainians a little because they have a future (if they survive all this of course), and we don't. Most people in my bubble, including myself, are strongly against the war. Many are fleeing the…

> The talks like "let's hurt the regular people so they revolt against Putin"

As someone that comes from a sanctioned country, this is one important thing that most people that have never lived a similar situation don't understand:

-When you live in an authoritarian regime, you don't just "revolt" and topple the autocrat. In our case, it has cost a LOT of innocent lives in the streets protesting. Autocrats don't mind killing as many of their own citizens as they have to, to stay in power.

-The sanctions are usually paid for by the population. In our case, while the sanctions were certainly "inconvenient" to the government, most of the effects where on the regular people. Government cronies have no problem getting food, gasoline, etc. This then gives the autocrat the excuse: "Look, it's them causing this. I'm here to defend you from the bad imperialist sanctions.

Now, I'm not saying I know what the solution is, and I certainly get a lot of satisfaction in seeing that my local autocrats cannot travel freely with their ill-gotten gains and seeing yachts being confiscated all over the world. But it's my opinion that most of the time, sanctions affect a population that has very little power to do something about the situation.

That being said, in Russia's case, being very heavily constrained economically does throw a spanner in the gears of the war machine. Not sure how it's going to play out, but I bet Putin would rather see his people starve first before limiting the military funding of this.

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#82
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ugly truth is that at the root of it all, violence is the foundation upon which society sits. Society is held together by the threat of violence. A pacifist gets to live their pacifist lives, because they are kept safe by those who would inflict violence upon those who would threaten society.

I’m afraid you’ve misconstrued pacifism for inaction and cowardice. They’re not the same.

Yeah, I worried about my wording, but couldn't think of anything that would get that point across better.

FWIW, I respect and admire those who avoid violence. We need less application of it in the world, obviously.

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that nationalists are opposition in Russia. Their goal is national and cultural homogenity on smaller territory (e.g. without Caucasus), so they should be naturally against territorial expansion. I'd rather call Putinism/"Eurasianism" imperialist politics.

I'm talking big N Nationalism. The belief that all "Great" nations historically have embodied. I'm talking about the sentiment that inspired the great territorial expansions of Macedon under alex III, Rome under Hadrian, france under nepolian, germany under hitler, & United States under Nixon. That you can take, unify and direct great resources under force. Forge a monopoly on violence and create prosperity for your…

> the great territorial expansions of ... United States under Nixon

What are you referring to here? I don't recall Nixon claiming any new territory.

The real American expansionist was Polk. He's barely remembered now but he was responsible for annexing Texas, taking the southwest US from Mexico after the Mexican–American War, and dividing the northwestern US/southwest Canada with Britain.

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#84
post #81

Software engineer from Moscow. This is an absolute disaster for us. I can't imagine how and when we recover from this. The damage already made to our country is going to be devastating, and it's not even over yet. I even envy Ukrainians a little because they have a future (if they survive all this of course), and we don't. Most people in my bubble, including myself, are strongly against the war. Many are fleeing the…

> The talks like "let's hurt the regular people so they revolt against Putin" As someone that comes from a sanctioned country, this is one important thing that most people that have never lived a similar situation don't understand: -When you live in an authoritarian regime, you don't just "revolt" and topple the autocrat. In our case, it has cost a LOT of innocent lives in the streets protesting. Autocrats don't mind…

These sanctions are not about inducing revolt. I imagine most policymakers and citizens in the West are clear-eyed about the hopeless political apathy in Russian society. It’s been 30 years of economic engagement and rising prosperity for them and all we got for it was this evil!, the Germans lament.

It’s more: starve the war machine’s economy, and be damned the consequences for ordinary Russians.

Geopolitics aside, I and many feel a simple moral repulsion at funding the aggressor in any way. Sure, one wishes many more Russians felt the same - not likely it seems.

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#85
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point was probably that people who visit HN from Russia bias heavily against the war - mostly young, educated, well off.

Precisely. "The internet survey showed that 100% use internet"

Chalk it up to you being smarter than you thought :)

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#86
post #84
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The talks like "let's hurt the regular people so they revolt against Putin" As someone that comes from a sanctioned country, this is one important thing that most people that have never lived a similar situation don't understand: -When you live in an authoritarian regime, you don't just "revolt" and topple the autocrat. In our case, it has cost a LOT of innocent lives in the streets protesting. Autocrats don't mind…

These sanctions are not about inducing revolt. I imagine most policymakers and citizens in the West are clear-eyed about the hopeless political apathy in Russian society. It’s been 30 years of economic engagement and rising prosperity for them and all we got for it was this evil!, the Germans lament. It’s more: starve the war machine’s economy, and be damned the consequences for ordinary Russians. Geopolitics aside,…

I agree with all of this, however...

Parties to the U.N. Charter need to do better. There is no way back to the stable world, such as it was. And not least of which is, we were wrong about it having been stable.

This is too big a violation of the U.N. Charter to just set it aside and go back as if nothing happened. And that it happened, when the U.N. Charter system is designed expressly to prevent this from having happened, also shows there's a problem. Is it institutional? Or was it just wishful thinking that turned out to not be true? And now what?

Because we need the U.N. Charter's institutions now more than ever. If it is really under threat, it means we're at even bigger risk of yet another world war, the very thing the U.N Charter system is intended to prevent.

We now confront the very real possibility of the stability-instability paradox is true. As a result of Putin using nuclear weapons as a shield to permit him to commit atrocities with conventional weapons, which increases the risk of escalation to and including a nuclear exchange. That means there is a gap opening between conventional war and mutually assured destruction, a kind of limited nuclear exchange. The similar idea of having to crap so badly you think, "well maybe I'll just let a little bit out".

Which is worse? The idea of a little bit of nuclear weapons exchange? Or giving up on principles and getting a nuclear war anyway? I prefer to stick to the principles, and be damned to hell for them than to just give up these principles to the likes of Putin.

Kenya's Ambassador to the U.N. talking about Ukraine and the U.N. Charter system falling, just before the invasion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxZlaiuicYM

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#87

I am disgusted at all 3 political sides involved. Most disgusted with EU/US, followed by Ukrainian government and finally by the Russian Government. A war does not happen for no reason. Putin is a known to be a rational actor. Obviously ordinary people do not want war. So you have to ask yourself, what events led to the war? What was done to prevent it? What is done to stop it now? Why am I disgusted with US/EU? Firs…

From one Russian to another, не валяй дурака. There was no precedent of NATO anything. NATO didn't attack or threaten your land. Ukraine never attacked Russia. Russia did with Donbas and then Crimea.

Your post embodies the propaganda that Russians in Russia swallowed, hook, bait, and even the lasso.

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#88

Software engineer from Moscow. This is an absolute disaster for us. I can't imagine how and when we recover from this. The damage already made to our country is going to be devastating, and it's not even over yet. I even envy Ukrainians a little because they have a future (if they survive all this of course), and we don't. Most people in my bubble, including myself, are strongly against the war. Many are fleeing the…

> While I blame Putin for most of this, I also think the collective West has gone mad too. The campaign to cancel, ban, boycott and belittle everything and everyone that has anything to do with Russia is out of control. People are not to blame for the actions their government.

It is small consolation in light of the enormity of everything that is going on, but I think the Russian public has earned some respect from the rest of the world in the last several days. We see that something like five thousand people were arrested during protests against the invasion in one day alone.

I have no idea how any of that will translate into action. Things are crazy right now.

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#89
post #20

Hello! Russian SW developer from Moscow is here. First, it's been a shock for all the society. No one would imagine in a worst dream that this attack would happen. Even when Putin made his speech about acceptance of LNR/DNR we were like "phew, another shitty fake politics, nothing really changes". But then the war started. And no one expected that! I think, even military or economic ministers didn't expect that. Peop…

> They see the beautiful TV picture of brave Russian forces fighting Ukrainian nazis...

I never understood that part of the propaganda:

to free a nation from nazis who elected a jewish president??? ("Zelenskyy is the first Jewish President of Ukraine..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Zelenskyy )

Sounds completely crazy to me?

I'm assuming that Ukraine's president's religion is known to Russians (as apparently russians and ukrainians are very near/related to each other etc..., stated by the propaganda itself), how can that propaganda (and therefore as well the other related propaganda) not fall apart on its own, to still be accepted by the population? I totally don't get it... .

Good luck and thanks a lot for your post!!! :)))

Re: Ask HN: What do Russians on HN think about this war?

#90
post #9

I am Ukrainian, living in US, but have plenty of Russian friends and (still) some connections with people living in Russia. My strong believe is that there is pretty high support of Putin in Russia, especially around mainstream population, I'd estimate at least 40-50%. This is related to 20+ years of propaganda and phantom pains of USSR collapse. West people should not be delusional. Of course it is also not black an…

Do you happpen to have heard/know how groups like this are viewed? https://mobile.twitter.com/guychazan/status/1500543700295987... https://mobile.twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/15004953095957...

Holy shit that first video :o

This organization probably grew out of scouts https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/01/putins-boy-scout-army-r...

going "The Youth Army, open to both boys and girls, is a militarized throwback to the Young Pioneers of the Soviet era." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/world/europe/russia-sovie...

and ending up with straight up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth

Post reply on HN