Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989 • Hacker News Board

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#181

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 10:55 AM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #85

Fomite wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also somewhat complicated because, as the article notes, sewage monitoring in Israel picks up polio virus with some degree of frequency, despite there being no recorded cases - there's definitely shedding going on, and it's sort of an odd case due to a number of demographic and geopolitical factors. This is not necessarily something that can be attributed to the vaccine. Will be curious to see what the result…

> despite there being no recorded cases - there's definitely shedding going on > This is not necessarily something that can be attributed to the vaccine. Some stats about polio that people seem unaware of: * Around 72% of infections are completely asymptomatic. * Around 25% of infections result in flu-like symptoms. * That remaining 3% is where the serious symptoms are, with paralysis occurring in only about 0.5% of…

And your point is? That Polio is just a non-serious disease?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#182

Post by PartiallyTyped » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:09 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #13

jacobsievers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans remain humans. Blame the systems that amplify extreme voices.

People are responsible for their own behavior and can make choices. You can make choices. They aren't victims of systems.

Only if you can argue free-will exists.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#183

Post by fragmede » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:22 AM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #85

Fomite wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also somewhat complicated because, as the article notes, sewage monitoring in Israel picks up polio virus with some degree of frequency, despite there being no recorded cases - there's definitely shedding going on, and it's sort of an odd case due to a number of demographic and geopolitical factors. This is not necessarily something that can be attributed to the vaccine. Will be curious to see what the result…

> despite there being no recorded cases - there's definitely shedding going on > This is not necessarily something that can be attributed to the vaccine. Some stats about polio that people seem unaware of: * Around 72% of infections are completely asymptomatic. * Around 25% of infections result in flu-like symptoms. * That remaining 3% is where the serious symptoms are, with paralysis occurring in only about 0.5% of…

To put that in perspective, to date, Covid-19 has killed 957k Americans. This works out to be 0.3 percent if everyone had it (which they didn't).

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#184

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:27 AM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #129

consp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more prevalent now than at other point in time I would not rule out detection bias: you can't be diagnosed with those if you can't find it before you are dead. And death used to come s lot sooner for most in the past.

That is an oversimplification. Just to point out one important aspect of this, Vitamin D levels are strongly related to human health and immune system function and have been dropping for decades.

Given that vitamin D is created in our skins by sunlight exposure (or rather, by exposure to UV-B radiation), this corresponds with the employment distribution shifting from agricultural and other outdoor labor work towards office, cubicle-farm jobs. Additionally, making this worse, modern glass is highly impermissible for UV-B radiation [1], meaning that even if you do sit in a well-lit place you won't get enough to create enough vitamin D.

[1]: https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q12082.html

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#185

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:32 AM UTC

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #136

Drybones wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

smallpox

Smallpox has been eradicated, that's not even virtually nonexistent. Only risk I see is biological warfare, but why do that with a virus we have a vaccine for?

There are multiple other scenarios where the virus could become released into the wild again: infection by clearing up old storage sites, a laboratory accident, or some terrorist spending 100k US$. And all of these have happened (although the latter was "just" horse pox).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Post-eradication

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#186

Post by dalbasal » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:40 AM UTC

alignItems wrote: post #150

Arnt wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a mosque around the corner where I live. I see old people go in and out, hardly any teenagers. Just like in the church to which my parents-in-law once brought us. How many of those hasidic jews' 4.1 children keep the faith, and how many get a career instead? 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5? If it's 3.5 I'll have to ask why they succeed so well.

3.9

This isn't true, at least in Israel.

"Faith" is a big word, but for many/most haredi people "community" is the more operative term. Leaving a sect means becoming an outsider. All their family and friend relationships are insider-based. Regardless of the severity of luteral shunning practices, the nature or haredi lifestyle makes these aspects severe regardless. There's a lot of variance between communities though.

In any case, people do leave. Often, it's relatively early in life. This is why haredi communities are so leery of military service, college lifestyles and such.

People also join. A lot of Chabad adjacent communities are largely converts and 2nd generation members.

I would also emphasize that lifestyle, community, belonging, mission and such tend to play as big a role as belief in convincing converts.

Judaism doesn't always emphasize belief in its definition of "faith." At least, far less than Christianity and Islam. This a philosophical tradition going way back. Faithfulness and even spirituality are often seen as concerning practice (ritual, but also moral) moreso than concerning faith.

Belief follows practice, and if it doesn't... at least you have practice. The Christian Brothers pinched this line from an old rabbi.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#187

Post by not1ofU » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:43 AM UTC

godmode2019 wrote: post #139

somenameforme wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some interesting history on Pakistan there that has do with unforeseen consequences and why the ends never really do justify the means. The CIA gained some intel that Bin Laden was residing in Pakistan, and in the precise vicinity, but they wanted to be certain. They way they did this was by recruiting a local doctor [1] and splashing around a ton of money to start a fake vaccine campaign. It's unclear if they bother…

Thank you very much for the information. I have a running troll with friends who are unvaccinated, it goes like this. """ The elites know the second coming of Jesus is near, the idea they had is to kill Jesus before he is born. Jesus can only be born from his last remaining bloodline, somewhere in the world are the last descendants of Jesus. They need to find his parents and serialise them. To do this they created a…

If this is how you treat your friends, then you dont deserve to have any. If one of those people ends up killing themselves, then you should understand that you may have had a hand in that.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#188

Post by dalbasal » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 11:45 AM UTC

waffleiron wrote: post #154

1_player wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet on the page strictly about babies and children, the recommendation is to "[use] a moderate amount of poultry meat and some red meat as a source of protein. [...] Eating fish two to three times a week is recommended for the whole family." https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-diet/nutrition... There's far too many stories of babies dying of malnutrition on vegan diets. While it's possible to make them heal…

> There's a difference between surviving and thriving. And you have given no proof that a child can't thrive on a vegan diet. Surely it's not something a public health authority recommends, because people generally aren't vegan. I can't find any study supporting that a vegan diet for infants and children can't be as healthy as a non-vegan diet. There are always outliers, but you also have children on non-vegan diets…

Strict vegan diets, in communities that are studied scientifically, were pretty rare until recently.

We'll have good data in a decade or so.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#189

Post by b112 » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 12:16 PM UTC

cudgy wrote: post #82

SantalBlush wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they create an account here on HN, and suddenly they're an expert on anything remotely tangential to STEM.

Or they judge someone on Youtube as a nutbar and call to censor with equally little knowledge. Ignorance cuts both ways.

You don't need to censor the nutbars, and it is ok to call them that.

The former is shutting down discourse, the latter is pointing out its flaws, and is a correct response.

When I was in high school, pre-Internet, we has an entire class about modern media.

We discussed advertising, profit motives, watched TV commercials and dissected them, it was all about creating awareness in youth, about something they grew up with and took for granted.

This sort of thing had value, it helps people see things through a different viewpoint, including helping people become more critical of the snakenoil salesman.

We should have such things about the Internet, and youtube, as well.

I bet the average Joe doesn't realise how profitable YouTube channels can be, and thus, how profitable lies are.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#190

Post by Lorkki » Mon, Mar 07, 2022, 12:16 PM UTC

genocidicbunny wrote: post #166

Lorkki wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B12 supplementation is recommended for a vegan diet at any age. Besides that, I'm not sure what you mean by careful management. Eating a normal varied diet where the proteins come from plant sources gets you covered. Where I live, a vegan diet is recognised as part of the official dietary recommendations for children, and is provided also in schools and kindergartens: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/themes/healthy-die…

That very same link states that "a carefully composed vegan diet" can be beneficial. Thats my point -- with a vegan diet you have to be much more conscientious about nutrition. Many people are not. With your average healthy omnivorous diet, you rarely have any significant nutrient deficiencies that you have to worry about. Said diet ends up being simpler to implement in practice. That's what I mean by careful managem…

You say "much more", but the models of healthy eating don't really differ that much in practice. Both prescribe a balanced plate with carbs, proteins, and "other" vegetables. The omnivore model calls for half the plate being vegetables, while the vegan plate is divided into equal thirds.

That of course being the rule of thumb, and obviously people don't necessarily build every meal to exactly that pattern. A pizza night every now and then is okay too.

> rarely have any significant nutrient deficiencies

People in the Nordics are usually already supplementing at least vitamin D due to lack of sunlight, and often iodine due to a lack of it in the soil. So in this context, switching to a combined vegan supplement that includes those as well as B12 is a relatively small change.