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Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

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Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#71

Post by zapataband1 »

Swizec wrote: post #60
wolverine876 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people no longer have the education I'm pretty sure we're better educated than any time in human history. EDIT: Thinking about it, I would guess that we don't have as much humanities education as the prior generation (because it's been devalued), and humanities are what address the questions and problems plaguing our society, the big ones that are too complex to yield to scientific method or algorithms.

> I'm pretty sure we're better educated than any time in human history. The problem is we've had it so good for so long that we don't remember what it was like. Why take a bunch of preventative stuff for something that never happens? Feels like a waste of time. In reality, those preventative steps are why it doesn't.

In Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" he talks about how Europe regressed and became incredibly religious. A lot of secular medicine was lost, and the Queen, the richest person in the last, was pregnant 18 times, 15 dies in childbirth and 3 did not live to be adults. Science has solved these problems not CEOs, or wealth and those are the things we worship in the US

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#72

Post by fleurjs »

ch4s3 wrote: post #68
fleurjs wrote: post #34

[flagged]

The anti-vaccine movement developed as soon as vaccines forest existed, and it developed independently on at least 3 continents. Even if you could snap your fingers and make social media disappear, people would still at various times and places refuse vaccination. Also your assertion that free will doesn’t exist is highly suspect. Either you’re coming from a place of collectivist ideology and work backwards or your r…

Science doesn't prove God exists and science doesn't prove free will exists. Everything is cause and effect. Superdeterminism is the best theory.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#73

Post by erulabs »

ch4s3 wrote: post #68
fleurjs wrote: post #34

[flagged]

The anti-vaccine movement developed as soon as vaccines forest existed, and it developed independently on at least 3 continents. Even if you could snap your fingers and make social media disappear, people would still at various times and places refuse vaccination. Also your assertion that free will doesn’t exist is highly suspect. Either you’re coming from a place of collectivist ideology and work backwards or your r…

> You will scream at me (that is, if you condescend to do so) that no one is touching my free will, that all they are concerned with is that my will should of itself, of its own free will, coincide with my own normal interests, with the laws of nature and arithmetic. Good heavens, gentlemen, what sort of free will is left when we come to tabulation and arithmetic, when it will all be a case of twice two make four? Twice two makes four without my will. As if free will meant that!

Well said - I fear you’re talking to a deaf audience, but still, well said.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#74

Post by cdtwigg »

fastaguy88 wrote: post #21
tootie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does polio not have animal reservoirs?

No. If it could be eliminated from humans, it would be gone. Like smallpox.

The oral polio vaccine is a live vaccine and occasionally reverts to an actually infectious strain. This isn’t a major concern in countries where people are widely vaccinated but would be an issue if we considered it eliminated and stopped vaccinating segments of the population. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#75

Post by ch4s3 »

fleurjs wrote: post #72
ch4s3 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-vaccine movement developed as soon as vaccines forest existed, and it developed independently on at least 3 continents. Even if you could snap your fingers and make social media disappear, people would still at various times and places refuse vaccination. Also your assertion that free will doesn’t exist is highly suspect. Either you’re coming from a place of collectivist ideology and work backwards or your r…

Science doesn't prove God exists and science doesn't prove free will exists. Everything is cause and effect. Superdeterminism is the best theory.

I would also argue that like the existence of god free will is probably unfalsifiable.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#76

Post by ch4s3 »

erulabs wrote: post #73
ch4s3 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-vaccine movement developed as soon as vaccines forest existed, and it developed independently on at least 3 continents. Even if you could snap your fingers and make social media disappear, people would still at various times and places refuse vaccination. Also your assertion that free will doesn’t exist is highly suspect. Either you’re coming from a place of collectivist ideology and work backwards or your r…

> You will scream at me (that is, if you condescend to do so) that no one is touching my free will, that all they are concerned with is that my will should of itself, of its own free will, coincide with my own normal interests, with the laws of nature and arithmetic. Good heavens, gentlemen, what sort of free will is left when we come to tabulation and arithmetic, when it will all be a case of twice two make four? Tw…

Thank you. I’ve been deep in Solzhenitsyn, and that Dostoevsky quote really hit me. I had to go look up the whole passage.

I especially like:

> for the whole work of man really seems to consist in nothing but proving to himself every minute that he is a man and not a piano-key!

What a beautiful and concise way of putting that idea.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#77

Post by fleurjs »

ch4s3 wrote: post #75
fleurjs wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science doesn't prove God exists and science doesn't prove free will exists. Everything is cause and effect. Superdeterminism is the best theory.

I would also argue that like the existence of god free will is probably unfalsifiable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#78

Post by seanp2k2 »

lmilcin wrote: post #59
wolverine876 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people no longer have the education I'm pretty sure we're better educated than any time in human history. EDIT: Thinking about it, I would guess that we don't have as much humanities education as the prior generation (because it's been devalued), and humanities are what address the questions and problems plaguing our society, the big ones that are too complex to yield to scientific method or algorithms.

> I'm pretty sure we're better educated than any time in human history. In the past public opinion would be created by a minority of affluent people. Most people were basically peasants (even middle class with nice jobs) and had no chance to affect public opinion. Today public opinion is created by the majority (or manipulated by some shadowy figures with unknown agenda -- I can't make up my mind about it). So you co…

>Today truly educated and wise people have no access to public because the signal to noise ratio is too low for most people to be able to pick up.

Not just that, but simple inflammatory talking points are easier for people to understand and get upset about, then get behind.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#79

Post by somenameforme »

ckemere wrote: post #9
gregwebs wrote: post #5

You might wonder how polio gets reintroduced into Israel or anywhere else. The polio vaccines we currently use are imperfect. The oral vaccine is a weakened form but it mutates in the neighborhood of one in a million cases to become effectively wild polio and some years this accounts for most of the poliomyelitis cases. On the other hand, the fully inactivated injected vaccine is non-sterilizing: it prevents poliomye…

This bears some correction. As the article reports, the strain that caused infection was traced from Malawi/Pakistan, where there is still endemic polio because of long-lasting vaccine hesitancy.

Some interesting history on Pakistan there that has do with unforeseen consequences and why the ends never really do justify the means.

The CIA gained some intel that Bin Laden was residing in Pakistan, and in the precise vicinity, but they wanted to be certain. They way they did this was by recruiting a local doctor [1] and splashing around a ton of money to start a fake vaccine campaign. It's unclear if they bothered using real vaccines or not, but the entire point of the program was a CIA DNA collection program. The CIA was bulk harvesting Pakistani DNA and cross referencing it against DNA from Bin Laden's sister

Once it was confirmed that Bin Laden had children in the area, the program was scrapped, we invaded, he was killed, and everybody was left out to to dry. The doctor was imprisoned, charged with treason, and has since been in solitary with claims of torture for going on a decade now [2]. Local aid workers (who had no idea what they were involved in) were hunted down and killed, some districts banned vaccination drives, and Pakistanis have been extremely critical of any sort of vaccination effort since.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakil_Afridi

[2] - https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ten-years-what-became...

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#80

Post by seanp2k2 »

ars wrote: post #53
imgabe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This probably has nothing to do with Facebook. Orthodox Jews and some Muslims sometimes reject vaccines on religious grounds.

No they don't. This is oft repeated, and not true. They reject vaccination for the same reasons as other anti-vaxxers, there's no religious component, just a human one.

"Religious exception for vaccination or religious excuses for avoiding vaccination" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141457/
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