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Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

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Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#81

Post by jcadam »

somenameforme wrote: post #79
ckemere wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bears some correction. As the article reports, the strain that caused infection was traced from Malawi/Pakistan, where there is still endemic polio because of long-lasting vaccine hesitancy.

Some interesting history on Pakistan there that has do with unforeseen consequences and why the ends never really do justify the means. The CIA gained some intel that Bin Laden was residing in Pakistan, and in the precise vicinity, but they wanted to be certain. They way they did this was by recruiting a local doctor [1] and splashing around a ton of money to start a fake vaccine campaign. It's unclear if they bother…

destroying trust has consequences.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#82

Post by cudgy »

SantalBlush wrote: post #62
b112 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> people no longer have the education > I'm pretty sure we're better educated than any time in human history. The problem is, people used to realise when they had zero knowledge on a topic. Now they listen to some nutbar on YouTube, and think they suddenly have a decade worth of medical knowledge.

Or they create an account here on HN, and suddenly they're an expert on anything remotely tangential to STEM.

Or they judge someone on Youtube as a nutbar and call to censor with equally little knowledge. Ignorance cuts both ways.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#83

Post by sodality2 »

cudgy wrote: post #82
SantalBlush wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they create an account here on HN, and suddenly they're an expert on anything remotely tangential to STEM.

Or they judge someone on Youtube as a nutbar and call to censor with equally little knowledge. Ignorance cuts both ways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#84

Post by cudgy »

ciconia wrote: post #66
ck2 wrote: post #4

> Indications of the virus have been found in sewage samples in the area Oh this decade is going to be insane. We have the technology to solve so much but people no longer have the education and thinking process to use it. Disease and war back on the front burners.

> We have the technology to solve so much but people no longer have the education and thinking process to use it. To me it's rather our blind reliance on technology that is the problem. People have become dependent on pills and drugs (and vaccines) of all sorts, treating the symptoms rather than the cause more often than not. Chronic diseases are arguably more prevalent now than at other point in time: obesity, diabe…

Imagine the impact on the GDP of the US if obesity was largely eliminated and diet and exercise incentives were included as part of health plans (eg free membership to fitness clubs and access to certified personal trainers with a 20$ copay). That’s a big reason why it hasn’t happened; instead the focus is on doctors and hospitals treating acute issues instead of preventing them.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#85

Post by Izkata »

Fomite wrote: post #8
gregwebs wrote: post #5

You might wonder how polio gets reintroduced into Israel or anywhere else. The polio vaccines we currently use are imperfect. The oral vaccine is a weakened form but it mutates in the neighborhood of one in a million cases to become effectively wild polio and some years this accounts for most of the poliomyelitis cases. On the other hand, the fully inactivated injected vaccine is non-sterilizing: it prevents poliomye…

This is also somewhat complicated because, as the article notes, sewage monitoring in Israel picks up polio virus with some degree of frequency, despite there being no recorded cases - there's definitely shedding going on, and it's sort of an odd case due to a number of demographic and geopolitical factors. This is not necessarily something that can be attributed to the vaccine. Will be curious to see what the result…

> despite there being no recorded cases - there's definitely shedding going on

> This is not necessarily something that can be attributed to the vaccine.

Some stats about polio that people seem unaware of:

* Around 72% of infections are completely asymptomatic.

* Around 25% of infections result in flu-like symptoms.

* That remaining 3% is where the serious symptoms are, with paralysis occurring in only about 0.5% of infections despite being what polio is known for.

* Searching for the death rate of polio almost always results in finding "5 to 10 percent" - but that's of paralytic polio, not polio infections in general, so if you want polio infections in general, that's 5% of 0.5%, or around 0.025 - 0.05 percent.

https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/index.htm

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#86

Post by bsder »

gregwebs wrote: post #5

You might wonder how polio gets reintroduced into Israel or anywhere else. The polio vaccines we currently use are imperfect. The oral vaccine is a weakened form but it mutates in the neighborhood of one in a million cases to become effectively wild polio and some years this accounts for most of the poliomyelitis cases. On the other hand, the fully inactivated injected vaccine is non-sterilizing: it prevents poliomye…

Part of the problem is that the weakened form is used because it doesn't require refrigeration.

So, the fully inactivated vaccine is the "better" of the two, but, because it requires refrigeration, is harder to deal with in the areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan where vaccination is most needed.

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#88

Post by klipt »

mlyle wrote: post #20
wolverine876 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most anger at the un-vaccinated (due to the assumption that they are causing the spread) seems mis-placed since those vaccinated by the injected form (that's probably you commenting on Hacker News!) will spread the polio virus as well. Seriously. In what population does polio spread, the unnvacinnated or the vaccinated? In what population are you exposed to it?

> In what population does polio spread, the unnvacinnated or the vaccinated? In what population are you exposed to it? This is all so weird. An explanation of how I understand it: Polio definitely spreads in the unvaccinated. If you've given the IPV vaccine, you can later be infected and spread polio (with a little less likelihood), but won't become sick. If you're given the OPV vaccine, you eventually will have ster…

> If you've given the IPV vaccine, you can later be infected and spread polio (with a little less likelihood), but won't become sick.

> If you're given the OPV vaccine, you eventually will have sterilizing immunity, and won't spread it, once immunity develops a small time after vaccination. But the OPV vaccine itself very rarely causes polio outbreaks.

What if we have IPV first then OPV as a booster, would that give sterilizing immunity with less risk?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#89

Post by ars »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #80
ars wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't. This is oft repeated, and not true. They reject vaccination for the same reasons as other anti-vaxxers, there's no religious component, just a human one.

"Religious exception for vaccination or religious excuses for avoiding vaccination" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141457/

Usually people post to disagree, but I guess you posted that to confirm what I said?

Re: Four-year-old Israeli child tests positive for polio, first case since 1989

#90

Post by ch4s3 »

fleurjs wrote: post #77
ch4s3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also argue that like the existence of god free will is probably unfalsifiable.

Quoted post unavailable.

Awfully presumptuous of you…

Some ideas just exist outside of our ability to test hypotheses about them. If there’s an idea that could never be disproven by observation, then it exists outside of the domain of science, definitionally. Have faith or don’t, I don’t care.

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