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Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

copyriot.se

31–40 of 122 posts

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#31
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> russians protecting their interests against american advances that is Russian propaganda to misdirect attention. How the genocide and ethnic cleansing solves american advances? Putin hates Ukrainians. If you listen to his speech the hate and contempt are palpable.

not my problem. i am not concerned what is fact and what is propaganda at this point in this war.

i am talking about america causing destruction to countries in their interests of capturing the world and not caring if millions die. remember gaddafi was "painted" a tyrant and subsequently murdered because he wanted gold for his country's oil instead of american dollars and since then the country is in ruins.

same for WMDs in iraq and the whole "bomb" in UN meeting nonsense.

what i am saying is, these corporations do not have a problem when america does these things which they accuse russia or china of. at that time its all fine but next time at the mere allegation of something similar in an enemy country they are all like "we must resist"

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#32
post #28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilians are intentionally killed and forced from their land because they are of different ethnicity. That is called genocide and ethnic cleansing. Putin has been very clear in his speeches that "Ukrainian question" is the main issue here. Ukrainians being of different ethnicity want their own culture, state, etc. while Putin refuses their right for that on the basis of his claim that their ethnicity doesn't exist.

> because they are of a different ethnicity [citation needed]

read Putin speech declaring the war. The people are killed because they of different ethnicity and refuse to play Russians as Putin tries to force them. From his point of view there 2 types of people in Ukraine - Russians and "nazi and benderovcy" with the latter needing to be killed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-tran...

and that is summary which says it better than i'd say:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/2/23/22945781/r...

"Putin’s clearest answer yet came in a speech delivered on Monday. He believes that Ukraine is an illegitimate country that exists on land that’s historically and rightfully Russian

...

Putin’s basic claim — that there is no historical Ukrainian nation worthy of present-day sovereignty "

Edit to the commenter below:

Your post is either factually incorrect, like about my account or my motivation or about "historically friendly relationship", or just some conclusions not supported by any facts. Nothing to argue about, especially that i already addressed some of these your conclusions in our previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30541386

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#33
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it that you think a corporation is not capable of making geopolitical judgments? You don't think they have a PR department? You don't think they have leadership that can read the news?

“Reading the news” hardly gives you the ability to make geopolitical judgments.

Why not? How else would you make geopolitical judgments?

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#34

>Then it would maybe just be a matter of time until they also closed down access to Spotify in Russia. But it would at least be a statement, saving the face of Daniel Ek. Okay, so the author's idea of bravery is to pull a meaningless PR stunt that does nothing for Russians but instead saves the face of the company's CEO in the eyes of anglosphere online bloggers? For once an actual instance of behavior where the over…

This is more of an American thing - the slow and subtle ceding of autonomy and power to corporates, with the expectations that they should behave like country states and be political. It's a very dangerous idea that Americans are being slowly brainwashed into, to repose more and more faith on corporates than their own democracy! This is the kind of thinking that lead to imperialism, with the Dutch East India Company being the poster boy of the idea as the world's richest corporate, with one of the largest private army in the world conquering and even ruling colonies.

The idea that foreign companies shouldn't submit to the laws, rule and regulations of another country is a retrograde colonial idea that reeks of both racism and greed. CEOs are not elected representatives nor seasoned politicians.

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#35
post #22
post #16

There is nothing bold about halting trade with Russia right now; as far as can be told there is a great deal of social and political support for anyone making such a choice. To be honest, companies making emotional decisions is more concerning to me. It is reasonable and to be encouraged if businesses want to be a moral-less dumb pipe. Spotify is not equipped to make geopolitical judgements about what is and isn't a…

> Spotify is not equipped to make geopolitical judgements about what is and isn't a just war or propaganda how hard it is? when only one of the 2 sides bombs civilians and causes millions of people to run away (as of now 1.4M, mostly women/children/elderly, have already crossed the border while many more is still running toward the border) just for the reason of ethnical difference, and thus committing genocide and e…

> just for the reason of ethnical difference...

How the hell has this suddenly become an explanation for the war (or even a thing in the first place)??? No one had ever mentioned Ukrainians being "discriminated" by Russians before the war, quite the opposite, Russian-ethnics and Ukrainians have lived peacefully in Ukraine AND Russia for generations (except for a small minority of far-right nationalists).

> committing genocide and ethnic cleansing.

This is a desperate attempt by some Ukrainians to paint a picture of Russia as being equivalent to Nazi Germany, playing the same Hitler card that Putin did to start the war.

They are doing that to try to make the West feel morally obliged to act even if that means war spreads to the whole of Europe and potentially, turns into a nuclear war.

Even though there is a lot of suffering happening in Ukraine and Russia is indeed bombing cities in the fight with the Ukrainian army, it's an absolute disgrace to compare that to a genocide, and the claim Russia is trying to ethnically cleanse Ukraine should be as strongly rejected as the claim by Russia that Ukraine is governed by people with Nazi beliefs, both being ridiculous.

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#37

>Then it would maybe just be a matter of time until they also closed down access to Spotify in Russia. But it would at least be a statement, saving the face of Daniel Ek. Okay, so the author's idea of bravery is to pull a meaningless PR stunt that does nothing for Russians but instead saves the face of the company's CEO in the eyes of anglosphere online bloggers? For once an actual instance of behavior where the over…

> The smart move for companies is to comply with these laws to a superficial extent while silently keeping as much dissident content online as possible and staying off the radar of regulators.

I don't disagree, but I think we also have to consider that a "PR stunt" by spotify would be part of boycotts by many, many other companies.

A hypothetical Russian that still has no clue what their government is doing will be magnitudes more likely to notice spotify stopped working, apple doesn't sell new devices, Ikea is closing, than accidentally find one slighly critical bit of content. All of this happening at once is very hard to ignore, also for pessimist apolitical persons (people who don't like putin, but won't do something against him as long as they can do their own thing). That kind of person is quite common in Eastern Europe to my experience.

Ofc the Russian government could frame this as everybody else being mean to them, and instead of making Russians critical it could polarize them in that way, so this is not clear cut the best strategy as well.

Maybe it would be even better to have them ban you for trying to speak truth to power (if this is possible without putting your staff in harms way).

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#38
post #16

There is nothing bold about halting trade with Russia right now; as far as can be told there is a great deal of social and political support for anyone making such a choice. To be honest, companies making emotional decisions is more concerning to me. It is reasonable and to be encouraged if businesses want to be a moral-less dumb pipe. Spotify is not equipped to make geopolitical judgements about what is and isn't a…

This is an extreme position, and IMO unrealistic. The key term here is "a moral-less dumb pipe."

I'm not sure it's even realistic to expect "dumb pipes" to me morally neutral, but that doesn't matter because Spotify is not trying to be a dumb pipe.

This is about podcasting, so let's stick with that. We already have/had a dumb pipe for podcasting. RSS. Podcasting is more free than most online media specifically for this reason. It uses an open protocol instead of a corporate platform. Notice how there is no post about RSS' policy regarding this war.

Spotify is, currently, trying to obtain exclusivity over top podcasts... taking podcasts off the "dumb pipe." The goal is to eventually dominate podcasting as they do streaming music. That's the opposite of platform neutrality, dumb pipes, decentralized moral choices, etc.

If you want dumb pipes, that idea is not really compatible with corporate fiefdoms in 2022 practice.

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#39

As an R. Kelly fan, this does not surprise me all. Once censorship begins it’s easier and easier to follow that well worn path. A lot of people like to mock the idea of cancel culture and pretend that it doesn’t exist - you know, the plainly disingenuous types who will say “they are a private company” out of one side of their mouth while demanding gay wedding cakes get baked out of the other. And sure there are osten…

> As an R. Kelly fan...

You mean Robert Sylvester Kelly, who was found guilty of one count of racketeering and 7 counts of violation of the Mann Act after a jury trial?

The same R Kelly that illegally married 15 year old Aaliyah in 1994?

The same R Kelly that is now facing further federal charges of child pornography and obstruction?

How is he or his cases in any way relevant to censorship or "cancel culture"?

The guy is a convicted child molester and has been a sleazy person for 25+ years.

Re: Spotify made a cowardly choice: to submit to the Kremlin

#40
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why write such a dismissive comment when that’s not the point at all?

It captured the tone of the article to me, reading in too deep to motivations of a publically traded company where there might be easily explained, boring, financial incentives. Don't know why anyone expects a corporation to take the moral high ground.

> Don't know why anyone expects a corporation to take the moral high ground.

Because corporations belong to the biggest and most powerful entities on the planet and not holding them to high moral standards seems to many of us like a sure way into a dystopian future.

If a corporation is viewed as some sort of mega-organism that lives long, evolves, changes it's environment, etc. who else then humans shall try to keep these from turning the world into a bad place? Even staunch believers into the invisible hand of the market think that it is individuals who will guide the corporations into behaving in such ways that they benefit all of us.

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