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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#701

Post by tim333 »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #237
skeletal88 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a colleague from Russia who moved here a few years ago. But.. still he is using talking-points that come from Kremlin's propaganda, like "The US will fight Russia to the last ukrainian" and "I would feel safer here if we weren't in NATO, this makes us a target for Russia" and "You know that it was promised that NATO wouldn't expand?" and "Your country joined the Soviet Union voluntarily". So.. even when some p…

>>>still he is using talking-points that come from Kremlin's propaganda, like "The US will fight Russia to the last ukrainian" That's considered "Russian propaganda"? We've managed to goad Putin into grinding up his conventional military in a large-scale war. We've set the Russian economy back decades. And we've so far pulled off both of these, without any NATO member paying a massive price in blood for it. Russian p…

Yup Russian propaganda. Try finding that from any normal / neutral information source.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#702

Post by mech422 »

throwaway_4ever wrote: post #510
tartoran wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That polarising effect on older generations versus younger ones is something that has affected a large part of the world and I’d be curios to know whether it originated by one source or it simply emerged as a trend. First time I heard about troll farms was something brewed in Russia but it certainly spread around by then

It originated as a consequence of a burgeoning free media environment due to the proliferation of smart phones and the internet. The younger generations, with their higher level of fluid intelligence, are able to approach things with better critical thinking and navigating the complexities of the internet world. The older generations aren't able to adapt and are sitting ducks for being easily manipulated by technolog…

I don't know about 'fluid intelligence', but due to 40 years+ of neglecting education, I wouldn't want to bet on 'better critical thinking'. Just looking at any social media site, will show you how many people (of all generations) will believe things without any confirmation or critical thinking applied.

edit: that goes for myself as well. I'm lazy enough not to verify stuff unless I think its 'important'...

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#703

Post by jacquesm »

artificial wrote: post #512
maybelsyrup wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody wants World War 3. Small point but this isn't exactly true, especially among US policymakers and media people. All you need to do here is read the chorus of people in official / corporate media going "nuclear war would be bad, but [...]". You can also rewind to the enormous shit-fit Washington types threw last summer when Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, or go even further back to the Iraq war. Washington is…

Lots of NGOs and bad actors. Speaking of which looks at this post by Edward Norton! [0] as far as strategies scope this paper by the Rand Corporation from 2019 discussing what looks like a lot of policies already in place. Banning Russia from international institutions, strategies such as providing lethal aid to Ukraine, destabilizing neighboring country Belarus, PysOps to damage internal credibility. [1] [0] https:/…

> Speaking of which looks at this post by Edward Norton!

Specifically which parts of that post do you take issue with?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#704

Post by artificial »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #561
artificial wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of NGOs and bad actors. Speaking of which looks at this post by Edward Norton! [0] as far as strategies scope this paper by the Rand Corporation from 2019 discussing what looks like a lot of policies already in place. Banning Russia from international institutions, strategies such as providing lethal aid to Ukraine, destabilizing neighboring country Belarus, PysOps to damage internal credibility. [1] [0] https:/…

I'd seen some of the Rand stuff but the Edward Norton shit is terrifying/hilarious. I haven't seen liberals this frothy for other people to kill on their behalf since right after 9/11. Lmao "please CIA FBI"! War makes fascists of us all.

Kinda weird that most media outlets don’t have foreign correspondents, local news rooms, or even reliable sources on the ground. Look at what talking points are used and who they interview. I suppose something encouraging is despite the massive effort people don’t want the war.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#705

Post by lowkey »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #669
lowkey wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The net effect is the same. Average Russian citizens are being treated as pawns and they will face the most brutal effects of these sanctions. Oligarchs and authoritarians in Russia have options and resources to weather the storm. Many everyday Russians live close to hand to mouth and they will suffer. I don’t accept the decision to dehumanize an entire nation’s citizens for the acts of their authoritarian elite. The…

>The net effect is the same. It's not though. The west doesn't come to Russia and shove their grubby hands into the bank accounts of ordinary Russians to steal their money, resources and taxes, and starve them to death. Russia does that to their citizens and bares the sole responsibility of these actions, not the west. Like come on, Russia can choose to stop the wear at any time and the sanctions would be lifted but…

It is though. The west does shove their grubby hands into the bank accounts of ordinary citizens - all the time - to steal their money, resources and taxes.

- A few weeks ago it was Canada freezing bank accounts of their political opponents.

- The US still allows for civil forfeiture of arbitrary assets with no presumption of innocence or conventional due process.

- A little while back Cyprus arbitrarily stole private funds from innocent civilians who had committed no crime - just because the gov said they needed it to bail out their bankers

- The EU has had negative nominal interest rates for some time stealing money from savers for the benefit of central bank policy

- Nearly all western governments have had negative real interest rates on savings for some time. This is a conscious policy to inflate their currencies through money printing in order to more easily manage their national debts.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#706

Post by FerociousTimes »

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

Why didn't you stay in Egypt till the dust settles?

You can obtain a visa up to 90 days and the country is home to a thriving Russian-speaking community not to mention it enjoys a relatively modest cost of living, so you wouldn't be burning through your savings till you work out a good arrangement for your job and life for the time being.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#707

Post by filoleg »

goldenkey wrote: post #595
djhn wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boomers are unfortunately lost to propaganda.

That's crazy considering that the FSB bombed its own citizens to get Putin into power.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings

It is only crazy if you assume that those people are both aware of those bombings and believe that it was the FSB doing the bombings (and not "it was actually western-backed terrorists, any claims stating otherwise are just anti-Russian propaganda from the west"). Which, in this case, is far from given.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#708

Post by dj_gitmo »

freedomben wrote: post #597
dj_gitmo wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American here, and I am involved with the US anti-war movement. I really wish we could get 5% involved with the movement, but people don't get interested unless it starts affecting them or their family. To this day, the most active members of the US anti-war movement are baby boomers because they were being drafted to fight in Vietnam. The US ended the draft after Vietnam. The sanctions in Russia could build resistan…

Agree completely. May I ask, how big is your anti-war tent? For example, in my experience the most anti-war people are anarchists (sometimes disambiguated to anarcho-socialists) and anarcho-capitalists. However only a small percentage of each group is willing to join with the other for an issue. Are you? Are you part of an organization like this?

> May I ask, how big is your anti-war tent? For example, in my experience the most anti-war people are anarchists (sometimes disambiguated to anarcho-socialists) and anarcho-capitalists.

I came in through left-wing organizing and I've worked with a few groups. Some are officially non-ideological except for being anti-war (but if I had to place them I'd say liberal-left) like Peace Action https://www.peaceaction.org/. They have a lot of members form the Vietnam era Peace movement.

Other visible contributors to the anti-war movement are socialist orgs like DSA and ANSWER Coalition. DSA has a bigger base, but ANSWER really tends to be ahead on organizing street events. Then there are various solidarity groups for countries like El Salvador or Palestine. The Latin American solidarity groups from the Dirty Wars of the 1980s still exist.

These left leaning groups would never work with right-wing groups, and for what it's worth you almost never see right-wing groups try to seriously organize anti-war, or at least they way they organize/lobby is very different.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#709

Post by mech422 »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #603
throwaway_4ever wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It originated as a consequence of a burgeoning free media environment due to the proliferation of smart phones and the internet. The younger generations, with their higher level of fluid intelligence, are able to approach things with better critical thinking and navigating the complexities of the internet world. The older generations aren't able to adapt and are sitting ducks for being easily manipulated by technolog…

Young people can absolutely be manipulated, it’s probably even easier than with older people due to lack of experience. However, the thing that works in younger peoples favour is they are less isolated. Generally people are very social when young and then as life and routine sets in they stop socialising as much and when they do it’s usually with the same people. Isolated people don’t have the personal experience to…

>>There is also some contribution from lack of technical literacy but honestly even some of my 30s IT coworkers lack that

My favorite explanation of this was an analogy to cars. Early drivers had to be mechanics, able not only to drive, but maintain and service their cars. Modern drivers just need to know how to drive, and often have no idea how a car works...

I think that maps well to computers. Early geeks had to know how to build, upgrade, program, network, etc. Current users just have to know how to _use_ an application and often have little idea of the 'behind the scenes' stuff..

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#710

Post by Etherlord87 »

goldenkey wrote: post #666
Etherlord87 wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are russians really such cowards? I always thought to the opposite, but this constant look for excuses why not rebel against putin, why not protest, and now even why not wear a t-shirt really changes my mind. If you're russian, and you call yourself a russian, and you speak russian, and you don't change that for years, and feel no responsibility for what your government is doing whatsoever, honestly, you deserve the…

It's not cowardly to avoid wearing controversial shirts. There are nuts everywhere just look for reasons to be set off.

Maybe I'm just brave, because I find that cowardly. But then what kind of word do we use to describe Ukrainians - heroic, I guess.
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