Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#601

Post by galangalalgol » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:01 PM UTC

throwaway_4ever wrote: post #510

tartoran wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That polarising effect on older generations versus younger ones is something that has affected a large part of the world and I’d be curios to know whether it originated by one source or it simply emerged as a trend. First time I heard about troll farms was something brewed in Russia but it certainly spread around by then

It originated as a consequence of a burgeoning free media environment due to the proliferation of smart phones and the internet. The younger generations, with their higher level of fluid intelligence, are able to approach things with better critical thinking and navigating the complexities of the internet world. The older generations aren't able to adapt and are sitting ducks for being easily manipulated by technolog…

The older generations in the US are demonstrating fluid intelligence by being manipulated to support actions and ideology they would never have condoned in the past and coming up with stunningly complicated rationalizations. And the manipulation is through newer avenues like social media. They keep moving further and further into alternative avenues like youtube and Facebook alternatives that maintain their preferred echo chambers. These people are now able to find millions that agree with them and it it is self reinforcing even without FB's algorithms so that they become increasingly extreme.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#602

Post by moonchrome » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

SXX wrote: post #583

moonchrome wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. From my perspective this is the only meaningful change you can make. If my government ever starts getting in my way too much I'll find another one. Voting with my feet literally. We have this luxury as in-demand professionals. Kind of hard for me to empathize with Russian developers when they had decades to…

Yeah we (IT crowd of Russia) had time to leave and wanted to leave and planned to leave. But even as programmer it's can be just hard to immigrate without losing 3-5 years of your life in the middle. Also losing all you friends and social circle isn't fun. I already lived abroad for 3-months / 6-months / 3-years and I know what how it feels to move countries. I personally had amazing personal projects going on and fi…

What do you mean losing years ? It might be a bit tough depending on visa issues and so on but none of my friends that emigrated describe it as losing years. They are all working in their field, some are progressing insanely in their careers (especially compared to how they were doing back home). I mean I know it's anecdotal, and I've read some horror stories about employer visa abuse but assuming that's the default is kind of cynical IMO.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#603

Post by Swenrekcah » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

throwaway_4ever wrote: post #510

tartoran wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That polarising effect on older generations versus younger ones is something that has affected a large part of the world and I’d be curios to know whether it originated by one source or it simply emerged as a trend. First time I heard about troll farms was something brewed in Russia but it certainly spread around by then

It originated as a consequence of a burgeoning free media environment due to the proliferation of smart phones and the internet. The younger generations, with their higher level of fluid intelligence, are able to approach things with better critical thinking and navigating the complexities of the internet world. The older generations aren't able to adapt and are sitting ducks for being easily manipulated by technolog…

Young people can absolutely be manipulated, it’s probably even easier than with older people due to lack of experience.

However, the thing that works in younger peoples favour is they are less isolated.

Generally people are very social when young and then as life and routine sets in they stop socialising as much and when they do it’s usually with the same people.

Isolated people don’t have the personal experience to be aware that the ads on Facebook are just ads and not the actual conversation going on around them.

And therefore we have this perception that old people are so dumb and easily fooled, while IMO it’s purely the social aspect that’s at work.

(There is also some contribution from lack of technical literacy but honestly even some of my 30s IT coworkers lack that).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#604

Post by alex239 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

I am trying to find a way to escape now, and it gets harder every day. Land borders are still closed for a formal reason (COVID) and most likely will never open again.

Unfortunately state television (the only television available for the most people) has been persistently making an enemy out of Ukraine since 2014. I don't know how it works, but propaganda can erase brains. The elderly and the poorly educated peolple really think that Ukraine is full of fascists and nazis who kill Russians. Orwell as is. it's horrible. On the other hand my friend who was protesting against the war was severely beaten by the police.

The most disgusting thing is that Putin has apparently lost touch with reality and can really press the button. He has absolute power in Russia. He is a psychopath. Things are very bad.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#605

Post by justinpowers » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

evv555 wrote: post #542

justinpowers wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public figures Russians being cancelled for not speaking out Ehh, this is nothing compared to Japanese internment camps. And not suggestive of bloodthirst or disregard for children. > anecdotes of "Russian" restaurants being boycotted vandalized This is sad. And even sadder, completely unsurprising. But again, a few anecdotes of stupids doing stupid and hatefuls doing hateful, doesn’t qualify as a “bloodthirsty mob…

>But again, a few anecdotes of stupids doing stupid and hatefuls doing hateful, doesn’t qualify as a “bloodthirsty mob with no regard for innocent civilians and children”. I just don't feel like catologing every red flag instance on here. It's a more widespread social trend. >I’d be furious and concerned about escalation if I were them — but the original comment suggested something much more broad-based and sinister.…

> I just don't feel like catologing every red flag instance on here. It's a more widespread social trend

Fair enough, but since this then becomes fully anecdotal and about personal perspective I should share my own: I am seeing far far less ignorance than i’d normally expect. And certainly far less than i‘ve seen the past few years within the US. But, that said, I no longer use Facebook. And I rarely use Twitter. So…maybe that’s why.

> I think you're drawing conclusions from OPs statement that aren't there.

Maybe you’re right. I’ve been seeing a lot of Russian-invasion-related hyperbole on HN; I’m trying to cut through the BS.

> The populist trend to try and deport/target innocent exchange students is definitely a trend in that direction however.

I’m even having trouble finding reference to this online. I see that Swallwell [1] suggested this, but the same article claims it was the first time the suggestion was mentioned by anyone. And I don’t see any other relevant articles at all [2]

[1]: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/swalwell-floats-ex...

[2]: https://news.google.com/search?q=%E2%80%9CExchange%20student...

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#606

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #516

sharpneli wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany also buys Russian gas. It's basically the last thing Russia has to lose anymore. If they escalate the conflict even more (by even more brutally bombing civilians) I'd be surprised if energy was not part of the sanctions. In essence it is to maintain some leverage, on top of the usual practical and selfish reasons. In addition Americans are notoriously sensitive to the price of gas (in a similar vein the joke…

If I understand correctly, you are fine with broad economic sanctions on everyday Russians, most of whom are already poor especially after the collapse of the Ruble - and who frankly don’t have as much say over their authoritarian governments as American or German citizens who enjoy living in liberal democracies. At the same time you excuse rich countries such as the US or Germany who actively choose to continue to b…

>[...] broad economic sanctions on everyday Russians, most of whom are already poor especially after the collapse of the Ruble [...] Remember, the sanctions against average Russians will absolutely result in shortages of food, medicine and other essential supplies.

You are completely wrong here. The sanctions are against Russia to cripple their war machine, not the Russian people.

And Russia, with its immense natural resources, could easily afford to care and feed its citizens regardless of the relationship with the west, if only their oligarchs hadn't dilapidated the country's wealth for their personal gain. So it's hardly the west's fault that the Russian government steals from its own people (literally) and spends whatever wealth it has left bombing innocent people in Ukraine instead of spending it caring for its people.

Russia is not the victim here, and Russian people starving is not the west's fault but it's Russia's own fault and their leaders' fault. Period.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#607

Post by ironcurtain » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

danielodievich wrote: post #405

andrey123 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

I've been in touch with my family in and around Moscow. Older generation is militantly pro-Putin, as a direct result of listening to the what the TV spews. My generation is ignoring it all and is keeping their heads down because it is too dangerous to express anything. My uncle who had a green card and had an opportunity to settle here in USA couple of decades ago but chose not to is being very philosophical, and say…

Одиевич. Поляк?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#608

Post by rectang » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:06 PM UTC

andrey123 wrote: post #316

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

> According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests.

"Courage" really understates the sacrifice that Russian protestors are making. I've participated in a fair number of demonstrations for various causes over the years (in the US), but none of them involved any personal risk or enduring consequences. Attending a single anti-war demonstration in Russia is a much more momentous act.

It's uncomfortable sitting in judgment of even pro-Putin Russians, because as you say we in other countries have also been responsible for grievous harms. But like today's Germans, we can't let ourselves be paralyzed by past history when deciding whether we can legitimately do something about the horror unfolding before us.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#609

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

Regarding a bank account, try wise.com they will give you US bank details (among others) which you can use to get paid, and a debit card.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#610

Post by Etherlord87 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 8:08 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #559

stickfigure wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest advice: Get a tshirt with "FUCK PUTIN" printed on it. Wear it everywhere, even if it's covered up by a jacket. If you find yourself in a risky situation, make sure it's showing.

Then they risk getting shot or stabbed by a pro Putin thug or agent. Your advice is patently bad.

Are russians really such cowards? I always thought to the opposite, but this constant look for excuses why not rebel against putin, why not protest, and now even why not wear a t-shirt really changes my mind. If you're russian, and you call yourself a russian, and you speak russian, and you don't change that for years, and feel no responsibility for what your government is doing whatsoever, honestly, you deserve the sanctions.