Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#541

Post by dzikimarian » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

veganhouseDJ wrote: post #403

risyachka wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen any major rebellions in Russia in the last decade? No. Here is a kicker - there were few coups even in North Korea. So russians are fine with regime. And even though actions speak louder than words, most people even didn't SPEAK against it until few days ago. So unless you openly spoke against putin and regime for years, you were part of the problem. Also, in Ukraine people go against armed forces with…

All easy to say as you post this from the comfort of your home.

Don't be so sure about that. There's a lot of posters from eastern Europe in this thread. Many may remember their own fights with USSR. Not to mention maidan.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#542

Post by evv555 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

justinpowers wrote: post #488

evv555 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In US there are several articles about public figure Russians being cancelled for refusing to speak out against Putin and anecdotes of "Russian" restaurants being boycotted vandalized. Publicly speaking out like is being demanded is dangerous and many US "Russian" businesses aren't actually Russian owned but catering to Russian speakers(including Ukrainians).

> Public figures Russians being cancelled for not speaking out Ehh, this is nothing compared to Japanese internment camps. And not suggestive of bloodthirst or disregard for children. > anecdotes of "Russian" restaurants being boycotted vandalized This is sad. And even sadder, completely unsurprising. But again, a few anecdotes of stupids doing stupid and hatefuls doing hateful, doesn’t qualify as a “bloodthirsty mob…

>But again, a few anecdotes of stupids doing stupid and hatefuls doing hateful, doesn’t qualify as a “bloodthirsty mob with no regard for innocent civilians and children”.

I just don't feel like catologing every red flag instance on here. It's a more widespread social trend.

>I’d be furious and concerned about escalation if I were them — but the original comment suggested something much more broad-based and sinister.

The comparison was in regards to polarizing dehumanization that's often a precursor to many bad situations. I think you're drawing conclusions from OPs statement that aren't there.

The populist trend to try and deport/target innocent exchange students is definitely a trend in that direction however.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#543

Post by sangnoir » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #474

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Ukraine has the same security implications for Europe as it has for Russia. I agree that the bear shouldn't have been poked for everyone's sake, the Ukrainians most of all. But now that it has, capitulation is not an option for Europe, no more than it was for America wrt Cuba's alignment in the 60s.

Sure.. but I don't know why capitulation isn't an option-- again if the chief concern is nuclear war then why should we resist to the precipice of a world war? That's the puzzle piece that doesn't fit-- how we're making nuclear war less likely by getting involved.

> but I don't know why capitulation isn't an option

There's a school of thought that says capitulation emboldens the attacker. Say Crimea and the whole of Ukraine had been handed over to Russia with no resistance, why would they stop there? Diplomacy fails when the other side misreads your intentions; a seemingly somnulent NATO may wake up to a reconstituted USSR invasion of Poland because Russia is confident fear of nuclear conflict will deter any action. No one wants that.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#544

Post by sharpneli » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #516

sharpneli wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany also buys Russian gas. It's basically the last thing Russia has to lose anymore. If they escalate the conflict even more (by even more brutally bombing civilians) I'd be surprised if energy was not part of the sanctions. In essence it is to maintain some leverage, on top of the usual practical and selfish reasons. In addition Americans are notoriously sensitive to the price of gas (in a similar vein the joke…

If I understand correctly, you are fine with broad economic sanctions on everyday Russians, most of whom are already poor especially after the collapse of the Ruble - and who frankly don’t have as much say over their authoritarian governments as American or German citizens who enjoy living in liberal democracies. At the same time you excuse rich countries such as the US or Germany who actively choose to continue to b…

> simply because buying oil elsewhere would be expensive and politically inconvenient.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, the main reason is to keep some leverage. It's the biggest financial sanction that can be thrown at them. Essentially all other sanctions were taken, but the last one was kept unused. If Putin escalates against civilians this sanction would likely be used too.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#545

Post by goodpoint » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #130

Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

> Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

Evidently you didn't want to see.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#546

Post by ThalesX » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #87

daenz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is talk of martial law in Russia I want to highlight this, because I think it illustrates my point about propaganda. I dug around for a source on that statement, and this appears the most reliable source[0]. An anonymous EU official picking up on "signs". Again, this also may be totally true, but it's presented in such a flimsy way, how can a reasonable person be expected to believe it at face value? Am I sayi…

Rumours are not propaganda. No you haven't discovered a vast EU-wide conspiracy or someone 'saying the quiet part out loud'. Nobody knows what is going on and naturally there is lots of speculation to fill the void.

Rumors is how politics gets done in my backwards country. You start a rumor about the opposition, they start rumors about you. You start rumors about great projects, the opposition starts rumors about how bad it is. The opposition shits on your project, you start rumors about their vested interests in stopping it. Before elections you start rumors about anything and everything and then back again.

Someone in your way? Start a rumor that they do X and then attack them for not stepping down from power. Want to check if people agree or disagree with something? Start a rumor on Friday, monitor for responses, fight in rumors during the week-end and next week, if the rumors align, maybe start that something.

I don't see how rumors are never propaganda.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#547

Post by freedomben » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

TravelPiglet wrote: post #442

nathanlied wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been finding it very easy to empathise with Russians in this. After what we've seen happening in so-called "enlightened" Western democracies, with all our press freedoms, and yet we still have homeopathy advocates, far-right (and left!) conspiracies, and all kinds of gnashing of teeth over "fake news". How can I not look at Russian society, with a far more controlled environment, and think "how can Russians not…

I’ve yet to see any homeopathy advocates and conspiracy theorists attacking other countries. Stop pretending it’s the same thing.

This black & white view of good and evil is starting to get really tiresome. Is it the effect of modern movies/tv shows that causes this belief? In movies there's usually a clear/perfect/innocent "good" guy and a bad guy, but real life is rarely so cut and dry.

It is perfectly possible for there to be two different parties, each of which (to different degrees of course) make bad decisions that hurt innocent people. Being honest about this and calling it out is not the same thing as equating what the "bad guy" and the "good guy" do.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#548

Post by ericmay » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #493

ericmay wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Might as well make the same argument for Germany or France. Putin is mad so therefore decouple these countries from NATO. Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple. Otherwise we’ll invade and neutralize it ourselves.

>So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Should Russia schedule a delivery of nuclear weapons to Cuba for this week or next? >Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple Is that because of its close proximity to Maine? I guess it's closer than Iraq...

> Should Russia schedule a delivery of nuclear weapons to Cuba for this week or next?

Frankly, I couldn’t care less. But if you think a country choosing to ally with a country is the same as positioning nuclear weapons, well, that’s your problem. Recall that Russia exited nuclear arms treaties and controls, which were the result of an insane arms buildup and included activities like putting missiles in Cuba. Even the Soviet Union got it.

> Is that because of its close proximity to Maine?

So you can only feel threatened by a country that you share a border with?

> I guess it's closer than Iraq...

This is called whataboutism and it can safely be rejected.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#549

Post by NicoJuicy » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:37 PM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #305

mantas wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to polls, even run by West outlets, Russians do support Putin in big numbers.

If you don’t trust the official election polls in Russia, why would you trust their opinion polls to be honest. If I were Putin, I would certainly be tempted to manipulate opinion polls to make it look like I am more popular than I really am. As for western media, while no doubt less manipulated than Russian media, I don’t think it is safe to assume that western media is above manipulating public opinion to suit thei…

Because covid and other things. A lot more was reported since last September where I am from.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#550

Post by akrymski » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:37 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #263

akrymski wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oligarchs don't run the country. They have zero control. It's like saying let's sanction Elon Musk for Iraq. The country is run by the military. Protesters are jailed for 3-5 years. Cornering a dictator with a nuke is the stupidest foreign policy I can think of.

The definition of an oligarch is "someone who is part of a small group that runs a country." (Wiktionary) So, you can try to claim that Russia doesn't have oligarchs, but if they exist you can't say that they don't run the country. EDIT: For example, if the country is run by the military as you say, then the top leaders of the military would make up the oligarchy and each of them would be an oligarch . I'm unsure how…

Sure, but the sanctions are aimed at the rich businessmen not military leaders (who aren't necessarily all that rich). Eg Khadorkovsky was the richest oligarch of Russia, has been jailed and became a major opponent of Putin.

Wonder who are the oligarchs of USA by that definition?