Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#501

Post by 5e92cb50239222b » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #435

danielodievich wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in touch with my family in and around Moscow. Older generation is militantly pro-Putin, as a direct result of listening to the what the TV spews. My generation is ignoring it all and is keeping their heads down because it is too dangerous to express anything. My uncle who had a green card and had an opportunity to settle here in USA couple of decades ago but chose not to is being very philosophical, and say…

Can you be more precise with which generations you are referring to? Maybe age ranges?

I am not from Russia, but have a lot of friends and relatives there.

In my circles everyone below 40 years of age is strongly anti-regime. Especially below 30. Many of them have left the country (everyone who could basically, and one has bought the ticket and is waiting to leave soon).

Above that age group it's hit or miss, and depends whether or not the person in question watches television and bothers to read one of the few remaining independent news outlets.

Pretty much everybody above 60 strongly believes in whatever bullshit Putin is saying this week. Although there is one exception that I know of.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#502

Post by llIIllIIllIIl » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

foxfluff wrote: post #479

llIIllIIllIIl wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go fight against Russian zombies in Ukraine to win your right to have a bank account.

Ukraine is not accepting volunteers from Russia. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/15001175130399825... I think it's the right call, given that they have a problem with Russian saboteurs who snuck into the country before the war started. They're currently discouraging the use of the Russian language (many Ukrainians speak both Ukrainian and Russian) to avoid suspicion. Tension is extremely high right now, ch…

Nobody said it would be easy.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#503

Post by pydry » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #475

pydry wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negotiate a truce with Putin that involved decoupling NATO from Ukraine and devolve centralized power to Ukrainian states.

A settlement like that is what ended hostilities in 2014, and yet he's back for more. What happens when he comes for the rest of Ukraine in another 8 years, or Moldova? Or Finland. What then? Negotiated peace only works if it works , and it clearly doesn't with Putin. We tried your suggestion already and it failed.

Except hostilities werent ended in 2014 and the Ukrainian government was pretty explicit that they didnt like the minsk protocol and didnt particularly feel obliged to adhere to it. So they didnt and the war continued for another 8 years.

The point is we DIDNT try adhering to minsk, zelensky decided he 100% wanted to be NATO rather than neutral and NOW look where we are.

A bit of decentralization, some restored Russian language rights and a promise for NATO to back off would ALL have been easier.

>What happens when he comes for the rest of Ukraine in another 8 years, or Moldova?

How exactly does neutral make that happen?

What happens when NATO tries to do to Russia what it did to Libya?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#504

Post by rectang » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #471

danielodievich wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in touch with my family in and around Moscow. Older generation is militantly pro-Putin, as a direct result of listening to the what the TV spews. My generation is ignoring it all and is keeping their heads down because it is too dangerous to express anything. My uncle who had a green card and had an opportunity to settle here in USA couple of decades ago but chose not to is being very philosophical, and say…

That polarising effect on older generations versus younger ones is something that has affected a large part of the world and I’d be curios to know whether it originated by one source or it simply emerged as a trend. First time I heard about troll farms was something brewed in Russia but it certainly spread around by then

I would expect there to be a divide between Russians who were old enough to experience the full effect of the chaos and privation following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the 1990s, and those who came of age later.

In the US, where I live, we also have tension between the generations, but it has more to do with changing demographics. There's nothing comparable to what Russians experienced when the Soviet Union fell.

Tensions between generations are probably the rule rather than the exception, at least over the last few hundred years of rapid change.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#505

Post by moonchrome » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

artyomxyz wrote: post #378

andrey123 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

In some way you’re right. But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. I personally lost any hope to change it one year earlier after participating in pro-Navalny protests. Now, I just don’t want to have anything in common with this government. I’m choosing another one. And I’m not going to pay taxes to Russian government anymore

>But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in.

From my perspective this is the only meaningful change you can make. If my government ever starts getting in my way too much I'll find another one. Voting with my feet literally. We have this luxury as in-demand professionals. Kind of hard for me to empathize with Russian developers when they had decades to make this move, it's not like everything changed a few weeks ago.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#506

Post by m4x » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

formvoltron wrote: post #170

therusskiy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not North Korea YET, but it's pretty damn close right now. Remember Belarus protests a year ago, Lukashenko lost the vote by something like 95%. Almost everyone went to protest against Lukashenko, but because he holds on military the protests couldn't do anything. When it comes to how much military Putin has, Lukashenko is not even close.

Lukashenko & Belarus is different than Russia because in Belarus, it is all the people vs the Lukashenko regime PLUS Putin's regime. In Moscow there is no foreign influencer. It is 11 million Muskovites vs the Kremlin. Who would win that battle? Even just 2 million people shaking their keys would send a message that Putin needs to change course.

Why would two million people shaking keys be more impactful than the sanctions that have already devastated Russia's economy?

I don't particularly disagree with your stance, but I'm not convinced Russian protests will change anything more than external protests via sanctions have.

I still agree that Russians should be protesting anyway. Ukrainians are literally bleeding to death in their streets for Russian aggression, and anybody in Russia today should be protesting unless they support that.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#507

Post by evv555 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

Etherlord87 wrote: post #365

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. The same can be said, probably to a lesser extent, about most of us living outside of Russia - if we bought things coming from Russia or didn't…

>The same can be said, probably to a lesser extent, about most of us living outside of Russia - if we bought things coming from Russia or didn't criticize Russia, we supported Putin in a similar way. Though it could be argued we, non-russian citizens don't have the responsibility for russian government's actions...

If that's the threshold for responsibility then that's barely scratching the surface. Western banks have profited from the enabling and corruption of oligarchs by laundering their assets with impunity for decades. Corporations like Cisco had no problem doing technology transfers for surveillance technology that now makes opposing so dangerous. German politicians gutted their nuclear energy/energy security in the name of going green. European politicians have pushed an agenda of appeasement in the name of moral relativism and "stakeholder capitalism". This is a crescendo that has been building for decades at the benefit of Westerners and the expense of normal Eastern Bloc people.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#508

Post by dzikimarian » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #382

mantas wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is how to separate Russians fleeing Putin from Russians who just look for financial comfort and still support Putin. One of stark examples is Turks in Germany still voting for Erdogan.

Maybe this is very American of me to say-- but what about them? They have freedom of speech even if it's not something I agree with. We don't throw everyone who calls themselves nazis into jail.. why try to punish everyone who might agree with Putin? Are we in the business of policing political attitudes now?

Well nobody is throwing Russians into jail either (except maybe for Putin). But I would argue that refusing to do business with Putin supporters is also part of personal freedom.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#509

Post by branko_d » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:18 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #392

traceroute66 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Its easy to say that but you have to look at the bigger picture. It's easy to say "just punish the government / the oligarchs", but as most Westerners know, these people have become extraordinarily adept at hiding their money and distributing their assets. So it is very difficult indeed to target them per-se, hence you nee…

Although it supports the Ukrainians and that’s important, I don’t see how sanctions reduce the likelihood of wider war? It is, in its way, an escalation, though a safer one than directly entering the conflict. It seems Putin sprung this on the rest of Russia as a surprise decision. (Of course the signs were there.) Did he bother to get the support of the oligarchs or anyone else first? It’s not at all clear he has an…

Lifting sanctions can becime a powerful motivator in any future negotiations.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#510

Post by throwaway_4ever » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:19 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #471

danielodievich wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in touch with my family in and around Moscow. Older generation is militantly pro-Putin, as a direct result of listening to the what the TV spews. My generation is ignoring it all and is keeping their heads down because it is too dangerous to express anything. My uncle who had a green card and had an opportunity to settle here in USA couple of decades ago but chose not to is being very philosophical, and say…

That polarising effect on older generations versus younger ones is something that has affected a large part of the world and I’d be curios to know whether it originated by one source or it simply emerged as a trend. First time I heard about troll farms was something brewed in Russia but it certainly spread around by then

It originated as a consequence of a burgeoning free media environment due to the proliferation of smart phones and the internet. The younger generations, with their higher level of fluid intelligence, are able to approach things with better critical thinking and navigating the complexities of the internet world. The older generations aren't able to adapt and are sitting ducks for being easily manipulated by technology they don't understand.