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Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

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Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#301

Post by jacquesm »

rr808 wrote: post #298
jacquesm wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are sure of doesn't really matter though, does it? Elections in occupied territory, especially when there are substantial doubts about the fairness of those elections in those territories (see the article you linked) make it hard to know what is really going on there. And regardless, Russia has already invaded on the pretext that Ukrainians had launched attacks on those regions (which turned out to be staged…

Its virtually impossible to know exactly what is going on, esp in a war and like you said people's views change. The East really has been a mess for the last deacde. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/5...

It's going to get a lot messier.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#302

Post by ecf »

jdrc wrote: post #97

These kind of photos always impress me about the number of people who are on their phones. We dont live in countries anymore, we live in screens with our legs on some kind of ground. I hope it's not irreversibly long until these stores can be reopened. We should stop pretending we re living in the cold war era, world is always new. Russia has shown itself to be an irresponsible holder of nukes. After the fall of puti…

> We don’t live in countries anymore, we live in screens with our legs on some kinda of ground

This would explain the over abundance of people on this website that care more about access to digital bits than they care for sanctioning a dictatorship who attacks a neutral country.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#303

Post by sto_hristo »

aftergibson wrote: post #282
sto_hristo wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try the Vietnam proxy war. And any sensible and rational being with non-zero knowledge of Iraq and Saddam's transgressions against humanity should support the Iraq war which was all about toppling him. Since you're clearly not one of those, here's some homework to get you started: Halabja massacre, Kuwait invasion.

Here's some for yourself to contemplate: The IBC project has recorded a range of at least 185,194 – 208,167 total violent civilian deaths through June 2020 in their database. Was this a justifying cost to toppling him? Was the decision the American Government's to make? Those events you mention are also a full 13 years before the war in Iraq started, why the delay, why end the gulf war? If my memory recalls, there wa…

A lot of innocent civilians die in the process of toppling any eternal psychopathic dictator with firm grip on their country. The bloodbath of WW2 could have been completely avoided if Hitler was simply allowed to take a bunch of countries and kill some minorities. If that works for you then there is something awfully twisted about you. This, however, doesn't work for people under those regimes - the ones that actually get burned.

Also, chemical weapons are WMDs - something Saddam had and used. More homework for you: Operation Opera. Left alone, this guy would be a more psychotic ME DPRK. It's hard to imagine that DPRK itself doesn't come close to Iraq under Saddam.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#304

Post by abandonliberty »

IYasha wrote: post #274

Reading all these comments on every side (US, UA, RU, etc.) I mostly see the same - people discuss anything except key questions: why did US sanction the military action (what makes them)? Why did Russian Federation changed its course of actions so radically in 2017? Why did RU change its coat of arms on money? Did the SU really cease to exist? What was considered "Russia" during last 100-500 years (and what US)? It'…

I got lost in your word soup. Messy writing often implies messy thinking. Beware conspiracy theories. Yes, there's almost always more going on than you see in the news.

Russia's strategy has stayed remarkably true to The Foundations of Geopolitics, a 25-year old book. One of it's core principles is dividing the US from Europe. Nato is a clear threat to that.

>Ukraine should be annexed by Russia . . . Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.

>The United Kingdom . . . should be cut off from Europe.

>France should be encouraged to form a bloc with Germany

>The book stresses the "continental Russian–Islamic alliance"

>Georgia should be dismembered. . . Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.

>Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#305

Post by bufferoverflow »

delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

> but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself.

No, it's not. Your actions have consequences. Russia has been attacking neighboring countries and taking parts of their territories.

Moldova 1992.

Chechnya 2000-2009.

Georgia in 1992 and 2008.

Ukraine in 2014.

They are using the standard scheme of "oh, this part of your country decided to become independent, we will flood it with our troops and defend them, and then install russian puppets to rule over it".

Enough is enough. Russia needs to understand that this will not fly. You lose your job? Cry me a river. Look what you did to Ukrainian cities.

(i'm a russian immigrant to the US)

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#306

Post by bufferoverflow »

egao1980 wrote: post #218
delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

Only false information will get you a fine or a criminal conviction. If you report facts backed by hard evidence you'd be safe. To get 15 years you'd need to create some fakes on purpose that led to for example mass casualties at the war zone.

That's not how it works in Russia. Say, you film Russian soldiers shooting Ukrainian civilians. Plenty of videos of that. You post it on Youtube with an accurate description. The Ministry of Truth calls their henchmen to bring you to face the court. They ask you - what is this? You tell them - I filmed it myself, it's all true. OK, but can you prove it's Russian soldiers and not Ukrainian dressed as Russian? You: ... Them: OK, enjoy your 15 years.

You can't prove anything based on physical evidence if you dig deep enough. Anything can have an alternative explanation, however unlikely. Aliens, quantum fluctuations, you name it.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#307

Post by pbhjpbhj »

_ph_ wrote: post #246
usr1106 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> About 500 airplanes are leased and have to be returned within a month to the leasing companies, Putin will make a law that returning airplanes to abroad is illegal. Foreigners have not been allowed to sell Russian shares already nearly a week. So nothing new there. They cannot fly to most countries anyway, so the risk of getting them confiscated while landed somewhere is small.

Well, yes, they can keep and operate them illegally. Short term: problem solved. Long term: its even worse.

It might be immoral, but surely keeping they planes will be legal by some means, executive fiat or whatever.

Is there international treaties covering such things?

Mind, I'm from the UK our government just ignore international law when they like and only to please their own ends, not even in times of crisis, so can't see something as simple as breaking a treaty will cause any change here.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#308

Post by cudgy »

Tade0 wrote: post #279
cudgy wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that Sovereignty is relative to how close a country is to the border of super power nations. Do you think Mexico or Canada can ally with any nation or join any military alliance they wish?

I don't know about Mexico or Canada, but Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland are all both Russia's neighbours and NATO members. Either Russia is not a superpower or it's not that relevant.

Or Russia does not find those countries to be enough of a threat either due to size, military force, existing relationships, geographical boundaries, or a multitude of other factors. Or maybe Russia has begrudgingly accepted those countries joining NATO, but the last straw was a huge neighbor like Ukraine joining that is strategically important to them.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#309

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Borrible wrote: post #136
jacquesm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not alone in that I think there are quite a few people that would like a little bit of quiet quality time with a certain dictator.

If it were just a certain dictator, the Ides of March are just around the corner. But, as you mentioned, it's not that simple. Russians are in favor of Putin. And of course, the apparatus has been driving up approval ratings for him for months before this stunt. And now most Russian don't know anything from independent sources, some probably didn't even heard about that Ukraine Peace Operation. A lot of them just bel…

Watched a YouTube video and one of the people simply couldn't believe that Putin would attack Ukraine, even when shown pictures of the attacks, their line was "but they're Russian speakers like us, he wouldn't do that".

One of about 8 people seemed to genuinely support Putin (something like "he knows what he's doing, this is necessary").

Obviously just a vox pop but in general it seemed few supported the aggression and most were just afraid to talk about it.

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