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The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

history.columbia.edu

11–20 of 69 posts

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#11
In a joined up world, sanctions are the new non explosive weapons. Less project fear (nukes/missiles/violence), more stand on the naughty step and no Amazon or Netflix for a month.

Russia is interesting though, because with so much land, arguably they can be self sufficient, which means only intelligence & innovation holds them back if they want to turn inwards like China did, which the Brits exploited commercially through Hong Kong.

Russia have already demonstrated intelligence and innovation during the cold war with sputnik, they also have tried and tested rocket technology which will boost the French Ariana rockets but we know that genius individuals are distributed around the planet although the health of the mother, diet during pregnancy & during the first 8years will go along way to helping a genius. But the West has pollution which is lowering IQ levels, just like Covid is lowering IQ levels as seen with the "brain fog", so I wouldnt write them off if they followed the science and wanted to go isolationist. Even North Korea has shown it can still survive albeit at a slower pace to the rest of the world, but nothing like the Nazi war effort, which goes to show how idea's can motivate groups of people.

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#12

I'm presuming the link is supposed to be about this book https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300259360/economic-weapo... There's a review with the same title as this post here: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/2021-1... Which sums up the topic with: > In an original and persuasive analysis, Mulder shows how isolating aggressors from global commerce and finance was seen as an alternative to war th…

No one listened to arguably the greatest economist of all time in 1919 when Keynes wrote The Economic Consequences of the Peace.

No one is going to listen now.

Not to mention the die has been cast already.

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#13

In a joined up world, sanctions are the new non explosive weapons. Less project fear (nukes/missiles/violence), more stand on the naughty step and no Amazon or Netflix for a month. Russia is interesting though, because with so much land, arguably they can be self sufficient, which means only intelligence & innovation holds them back if they want to turn inwards like China did, which the Brits exploited commercially t…

Did you say the West had pollution? Isn’t it China? Do you say USA and Europe have higher pollution?

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#14

Surely this will be an interesting event, but the title alone seems to compare economic sanctions with war, unfairly in my opinion. From a schoolyard perspective, economic sanctions are like giving a peer the silent treatment. It hurts you both, but it's your right not to interact with someone if you find them sufficiently unpleasant. War is like committing homicide against that peer during recess. In other words, it…

No. Economic sanctions are an act of war. Just like blockading a port is an act of war. War doesn't necessarily mean killing human beings. You could bomb an empty munitions factory and it would be an act of war.

Economic sanctions is the rich nations' weapon. It's a weapon that only a wealthy nation can wield. It's why there is so much support for it amongst rich nations. Certainly if anyone destabilized the american or european economies with sanctions, we'd definitely call it an act of war.

> From a schoolyard perspective, economic sanctions are like giving a peer the silent treatment.

No. It would be like Bezos saying if anyone does business with you, they'll be cut off from amazon. It's saying anyone who does business with russia is going to get attacked. It's why china was attacked for trading with iran when china doesn't have any economic sanctions on iran. It's saying the whole world can't do business with russia.

All wars are fundamentally economic wars. But we usually cloak it around noble virtues like 'freedom, god, democracy, 'kill nazis', etc' because it's so tacky and shameful to be attacking each other for money. Makes you no better than common criminal. A lousy thief at that. Surely, the leaders of Russia, US, NATO, etc are better than some lousy neighborhood thief. Right?

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#16

Surely this will be an interesting event, but the title alone seems to compare economic sanctions with war, unfairly in my opinion. From a schoolyard perspective, economic sanctions are like giving a peer the silent treatment. It hurts you both, but it's your right not to interact with someone if you find them sufficiently unpleasant. War is like committing homicide against that peer during recess. In other words, it…

There is historical precedent for economic sanctions leading to war. Notability the US froze Japanese assets in the US and embargoed selling US oil to them in July 1941. Less than 5 months later the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

You aren’t wrong but you also have to consider that economic sanctions have historically been a precursor if not the friction point that caused a war.

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#17

Surely this will be an interesting event, but the title alone seems to compare economic sanctions with war, unfairly in my opinion. From a schoolyard perspective, economic sanctions are like giving a peer the silent treatment. It hurts you both, but it's your right not to interact with someone if you find them sufficiently unpleasant. War is like committing homicide against that peer during recess. In other words, it…

Silent treatment is cutting off diplomatic ties. Sanctions is starvation of resources, potentially impacting the war effort directly but indirectly by causing civil unrest. I agree it’s certainly not the same as direct warfare, but its definitely somewhere in the middle, and can particularly castostrophic when done in a concerted multilateral fashion (ie. North Korea).

Sanctions is not feeding them -- but doing nothing to stop them from feeding themselves. Certainly not stopping them from behaving nicely and getting to interact again.

War is shooting people dead.

There is a stark difference.

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#18

Surely this will be an interesting event, but the title alone seems to compare economic sanctions with war, unfairly in my opinion. From a schoolyard perspective, economic sanctions are like giving a peer the silent treatment. It hurts you both, but it's your right not to interact with someone if you find them sufficiently unpleasant. War is like committing homicide against that peer during recess. In other words, it…

Silent treatment is cutting off diplomatic ties. Sanctions is starvation of resources, potentially impacting the war effort directly but indirectly by causing civil unrest. I agree it’s certainly not the same as direct warfare, but its definitely somewhere in the middle, and can particularly castostrophic when done in a concerted multilateral fashion (ie. North Korea).

Sanctions only are painless if the other side has no economic advantages against you, or otherwise has such a small economy that refusing their goods has no effect upon you.

Russia isn’t tiny resource poor Cuba. Everyone who refuses to trade with Russia suffers real losses as they are forced to get key goods from other sources. For central and Eastern European counties this is a real issue.

Imagine the US sanctioning Mexico… yes, it would hurt Mexico’s economy, but it would also devastate the economy of the South West USA.

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#19

In a joined up world, sanctions are the new non explosive weapons. Less project fear (nukes/missiles/violence), more stand on the naughty step and no Amazon or Netflix for a month. Russia is interesting though, because with so much land, arguably they can be self sufficient, which means only intelligence & innovation holds them back if they want to turn inwards like China did, which the Brits exploited commercially t…

Did you say the West had pollution? Isn’t it China? Do you say USA and Europe have higher pollution?

Cleaning products are considered pollution by NASA which is why they came up with a list of plants to clean the air in their hypothetical moonbase. You also have energy efficient homes which dont do the air exchange as much allowing for a build up of pollutants in the home and office but not all of them get considered pollutants. And just because you cant see the particulates like soot, doesnt mean the air is cleaner, its just different chemicals that still have a negative effect on the body. Look into Dieselgate to find out about those.

Re: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War

#20
post #16

Surely this will be an interesting event, but the title alone seems to compare economic sanctions with war, unfairly in my opinion. From a schoolyard perspective, economic sanctions are like giving a peer the silent treatment. It hurts you both, but it's your right not to interact with someone if you find them sufficiently unpleasant. War is like committing homicide against that peer during recess. In other words, it…

There is historical precedent for economic sanctions leading to war. Notability the US froze Japanese assets in the US and embargoed selling US oil to them in July 1941. Less than 5 months later the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. You aren’t wrong but you also have to consider that economic sanctions have historically been a precursor if not the friction point that caused a war.

I’m not sure if that’s a fair cause and effect statement though. Most sanctions were placed to pressure the opposite side without going to war and arguably prevent physical conflict. Hard to say the hypothetical result, but the timeline would of been, no sanctions and go to war anyway or push for sanctions and hope it’s enough to scare the opposite party but if it fails, you go to war anyway
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