Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 933 posts

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#321

Post by roveo »

skeletal88 wrote: post #102
daenz wrote: post #2

This may very well be true, but I'm having trouble believing anything, from anyone, about the conflict. There is so much propaganda around the subject, that unless you are personally connected to an official source, I believe you can't know with any reasonable certainty. The primary source for this story appears to be public Google Trends data.

I live in Estonia. If I see news reports where they interview people from the border guard who say that there are more border crossings than usual, owner of coach company says that they have added more trips to St. Petersburg and number of russians traveling has increased, also Russian-owned bus companies have added more trips to Estonia, where busses leaving here are alomst empty but packed full of travelers when le…

Also Estonia isn't a prime destination for Russians in this situation. Countries that don't require a visa are. Yesterday 42 passenger planes landed in Yerevan (Armenia), normal number being 3-4 daily.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#322

Post by lostmsu »

andi999 wrote: post #58
jacquesm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that there is plenty of evidence that this is really the case. Russians are crossing the border in unprecedented numbers, for instance: https://yle.fi/news/3-12345301 Flying is getting harder and harder so while the borders are still open (there is talk of martial law in Russia, which, even though it was just denied does not seem to have much effect on calming things down, in fact the denial seems to have the…

I thought you need a schengen visa to enter finland, and there would not have been time to get one from the time the war started. I would like to hear more details on this news.

A lot of Russians do have visas they obtained for tourism.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#323

Post by ericmay »

hutzlibu wrote: post #260
ericmay wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make it fair why not have them renounce citizenship and publicly disavow Putin or something? State their full name, former address, etc. Just to make sure they don’t support Putin and never have.

I think many would, if they can find a state who gives them papers instead. Being stateless is no fun.

Yea I can't imagine. The whole situation is just shit and it is all because of one guy.

My wild hope for this situation is that somehow Putin and his gang are ousted, and we can Marshall Plan Russia into a successful, prosperous European democracy. Even make them a partner with NATO like we tried to do before. Admittedly the Russian people would have to want that, so that's a precondition, but I'm hopeful.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#324

Post by 331c8c71 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #311
331c8c71 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia has already broken the cease-fire meant to evacuate civilians. Russians are claiming the contrary. https://tass.com/society/1417395

Of course they are. It's the Ukrainian Nazi-Jews killing civilians, not the people who invaded their country and are currently levelling it...

The ukranian army benefits from the human shield. The russian don't since they can't attack without causing civilian deaths (and the associated backlash).

But I guess you believe the Russians are eating civilians alive if they can.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#325

Post by nerkicacy »

akrymski wrote: post #262
nerkicacy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans can change government during election every few years if they don't like it. Russians can't. That's why the only way is 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'.

Except you get 3-15 years in jail for protesting in Russia.

You could get shot in the head during Euromaidan[1] demonstrations in Ukraine (2013-2014). And they were able to remove Viktor Yanukovych from office.

Many other countries escaped from Russian influance thanks to mass demonstration (Poland, East Germany, ex USSR nations).

It is not easy, but there is not other way. Only Russian can dethrone Putin, no one else.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#326

Post by jacquesm »

jquery wrote: post #317
jacquesm wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the problem right there: most Russians don't hate him. They've been subjected to a decades long barrage of obligatory Putin worship and even today his support is higher than that of the American president. They don't speak any other language than Russian and don't have access to other news sources. This is a real problem, because (1) it all but ensures that this war will last much longer than it should (it…

I’d love to know what you think the West can do, except that we are scared? I think the West is doing absolutely the right thing. This is a disaster for Putin but you know what could turn it around for him? If we give him an excuse to escalate the war and unite the Russian people against the West. EDIT: those are some good ideas. I definitely think we need to turn up the sanctions, so far Putin seems on the backfoot…

Cut off Russian gas and oil completely for starters, go after all Russian investments in the West, refuse to do business with any company in Russia, no more boats in and out of Russia, no more cargo, refuse to do business with companies from other countries that continue to do business in Russia, gift major arms and training to Ukraine on the assumption that this war isn't going to be over in a week.

Putin will see his reasons for escalation wherever he wants, whatever will suit him, if that becomes the touchstone then we are already way across the line regardless of our fears. After all, we exist.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#327

Post by jquery »

formvoltron wrote: post #195
jacquesm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it would change minds. And at the same time I'm pretty sure it would end in a bloodbath. Passive resistance against a dictatorship is a lot safer than active resistance. Of course the latter sends a more powerful message but it makes it obvious who to target, when and where and the reflexive response will be to lash out. Still, there is safety in numbers so maybe it would work. But I would not immediately bet…

There are already young people brave enough to protest with just 2000 people protesting. I'm talking about a million people standing outside and walking towards the Red Square, shaking their keys. If Russians cannot manage this, then I do not have sympathy whatsoever.

I saw a picture of a Russian mall from yesterday, lots of people out and about shopping like nothing is amiss. So far the Russian protests are pretty anemic (I mean in numbers, not in passion, and I greatly respect those currently protesting), it seems most Russians are a lot more concerned with the status quo, and that life is still pretty comfortable for them while bombs rain down on Ukrainian civilians. There’s so much they could be doing to show their disagreement with the government.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#328

Post by SeanLuke »

th-2022-03 wrote: post #220
mbreese wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only about revolting, but without a free press, economic sanctions are one way to get people to know that something is going on. Russian citizens may not even know what is happening, but when they suddenly can’t buy thing, when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket… that gets people to pay attention.

I'm being totally serious about this: as a first generation American, 9/11 caused me to rethink what this country was doing abroad. Obviously the loss of life was terrible. People in my town died in the Twin Towers. But I grew up mostly with American propoganda. I didn't know that the US had a long history of overthrowing governments in the Middle East and South America, and generally meddling in their affairs. Not t…

> But I grew up mostly with American propoganda. I didn't know that the US had a long history of overthrowing governments in the Middle East and South America, and generally meddling in their affairs.

I'm sorry, but this is whataboutism in its full glory.

The US has a free press, and its unfortunate history of overthrowing or supporting governments was and is well documented by the press and by historians in the United States. This documentation and publication resulted in many public scandals, lawsuits, and public intrigue, particularly through the 1960s to 1980s when the US's activities in this regard were perhaps that their peak. The resulting history is taught in universities and in elementary schools across the USA.

Now, there are well-known political parties or other people with a vested interest in spinning things in their own way, as is the case in any country, but if you think the United States press is anything like the press in Russia, or that its public is anywhere as ignorant of the facts as the public in Russia and similar countries, or if you felt you were unaware of the US history in this regard while it was going on, then you perhaps led a sheltered life. But it wasn't for lack of trying on part of the US press.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#329

Post by vlaaad »

bitcharmer wrote: post #214
optimalonpaper wrote: post #192

No one thinks that a regular Ivan from some russian city (on his own) is responsible for the war and should suffer. And I see how you could (and probably should, at some level) feel sorry for russians fleeing the country. But this is the only way to tell them that they -- collective Ivans, Russian society as a whole -- should stand up and act: they should articulate their content, they should protest against putin's…

Judging by the number of Russians taking the easy way out by just fleeing or complaining about the evil west closing their Ikea stores this nation at the moment has zero capacity to take responsibility for their own government. I'm afraid it has to get much worse before it gets better. They still don't understand that as much as the government is responsible for its people, the people are also responsible for their g…

Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over?

He did just appear when Yeltsin said that he's leaving. He blatantly fakes elections: 146% support is a very telling result of one of these elections. It is a meme in Russia because when you can't do anything about it you can only laugh or cry.

His 20 years on the throne are a constant stream of murders, poisoning and jailing of people who try to do something about it, and their friends, and their families.

I'm just a normal person, I want to live a normal live with my wife and kids, I didn't choose any of that. Why do I have to risk going to jail for 15 years for mentioning that war is war, only because I was born on the wrong side of the border?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#330

Post by hutzlibu »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #300
croes wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their government prevents them leaving too if they are male. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/02/25/russia-i... And that people on the outside are helpful was proven in World War II were many germans fled.

> And that people on the outside are helpful was proven in World War II were many germans fled. Ah yes so effective. Only 40 million killed.

So you would have been in favor of punishing german jews (like Einstein) for leaving nazi germany?

They were german citiciens after all, so they were all 100% responsible for the war and holocaust?

It is a complex world and oversimplifying solutions rarely help.

Post reply on HN