Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

novayagazeta.ru

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 323 posts

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#291

Post by jacquesm »

bagels wrote: post #164
jacquesm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Putin was given faulty intelligence that Ukraine would roll over and welcome the invasion because of their urge to return to the Russian fold.

It's incredulous that he would believe that after Ukraine flirting with joining NATO and receiving a lot of defense funding from the west.

By all information available the Russians did not believe that their campaign would last longer than 3 days. Lots of little bits of evidence, starting with the amount of fuel and food given to the invaders to the stories those told to their family when after capture Ukrainians allowed them to communicate with their parents to the leaked news article that got withdrawn.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#292

Post by _ph_ »

cudgy wrote: post #255
_ph_ wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would assume they are willing to break their contract and not returning the machines. Which they can do, but then they will never be able to lease a machine again. At best, this buys them a couple of months of operations.

You underestimate the shortsightedness and short memories of businessmen when shown a pile of cash, especially at companies like Boeing and other defense manufacturers.

The businessmen might think of their wallets first, but as long as the sanctions last, they cannot send spare parts to Russia. Also, the defense manufacturers are currently quite happy with the increased defense spendings.

Whatever the US role in the events in Ukraine was, for sure they won't let Russia off the hook easily after this invasion.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#293

Post by rr808 »

jacquesm wrote: post #122
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was the generally accepted rationale? What other explanations are there?

That Putin was given faulty intelligence that Ukraine would roll over and welcome the invasion because of their urge to return to the Russian fold.

Ukraine is not homogenous. Check the results of the election, I'm sure the East of the country (and by Moldova) wouldn't mind being part of Russia, the rest not so much.

https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/04/09/first-round-of-ukrain...

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#294

Post by jacquesm »

rr808 wrote: post #293
jacquesm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Putin was given faulty intelligence that Ukraine would roll over and welcome the invasion because of their urge to return to the Russian fold.

Ukraine is not homogenous. Check the results of the election, I'm sure the East of the country (and by Moldova) wouldn't mind being part of Russia, the rest not so much. https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/04/09/first-round-of-ukrain...

What you are sure of doesn't really matter though, does it?

Elections in occupied territory, especially when there are substantial doubts about the fairness of those elections in those territories (see the article you linked) make it hard to know what is really going on there. And regardless, Russia has already invaded on the pretext that Ukrainians had launched attacks on those regions (which turned out to be staged) so I think we're a bit past that point now.

Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that the citizens of those regions are far, far from happy with the Russian invasion.

Ukraine may not be homogenous, but it became a lot more united a week ago.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#295

Post by veganhouseDJ »

delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

We have no idea what the higher order effects of this will be.

There is an article in the Atlantic how this could cause a depression in Tajikistan.

This couldn't possibly be at a more fragile global economic time either after 2 years of COVID.

The economic damage of this is not going to be isolated to Russia. We have practically injected the global economy with an unknown economic poison and we have no idea what it is going to do or how far it will spread.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#296

Post by Borrible »

jacquesm wrote: post #286
Borrible wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is NATO, other ballpark. >> They can want whatever they want, doesn't mean they are going to get it. They won't. >> This sort of thing doesn't really work. They somehow missed that. They will pay.

I think you missed the reference.

Looks like.

Fog of War.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#297

Post by ed_balls »

delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

a lot of business will be bought up by Chinese for pennies.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#298

Post by rr808 »

jacquesm wrote: post #294
rr808 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is not homogenous. Check the results of the election, I'm sure the East of the country (and by Moldova) wouldn't mind being part of Russia, the rest not so much. https://euromaidanpress.com/2019/04/09/first-round-of-ukrain...

What you are sure of doesn't really matter though, does it? Elections in occupied territory, especially when there are substantial doubts about the fairness of those elections in those territories (see the article you linked) make it hard to know what is really going on there. And regardless, Russia has already invaded on the pretext that Ukrainians had launched attacks on those regions (which turned out to be staged…

Its virtually impossible to know exactly what is going on, esp in a war and like you said people's views change. The East really has been a mess for the last deacde. https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/5...

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#299

Post by delusional »

chayleaf wrote: post #237
delusional wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point, but the state of their prisons and their political system is their responsibility, right? I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.

is it our responsibility that we protested the regime, forcing Putin to ramp up the repressions, to strengthen the police? If so, I guess we should've just stood still and patiently wait for Putin to die of old age instead of attempting to change anything.

This is going to sound rough, and I don't actually mean it personally. As i said, i have a lot of compassion that this isn't easy, and I'm not sure I'd have the fortitude to do it either, BUT. It is your responsibility that Putin is in a position where he CAN ramp up repressions. YOU are the power he wields, and it's you that have to resist him. Without a population to preside over, the president is nothing. Without an army to fire the tanks, the tanks are just hunks of metal.

Again, I don't want this to sound like a blame you. I understand that real life is more scary than some intellectual debate on HN, especially coming from a dude in western Europe, but philosophically I don't see who else holds the blame, because it's sure as hell not ONLY Putin.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#300

Post by delusional »

katcher wrote: post #267
delusional wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point, but the state of their prisons and their political system is their responsibility, right? I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.

Putin is effectively unelected. Their election system is a multi-tiered hoax and just another method of deception. The alcoholic "President" before Putin had actual tanks firing at congress when things didn't go his way. Before that, communist supreme rulers who murdered those who opposed them. And their own party members to get the throne. Before that, Tsars, imperialist supreme rules who murdered those who opposed…

I get it, dictatorship sucks, but the subjects of the dictator are the only people capable of dethroning him. The tanks aren't going to shoot themselves.
Post reply on HN