Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#41

Post by knotty66 » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 9:05 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #39

rkalla wrote: post #2

We saw the launch of the Kindle Fire and have seen Amazon's hand with the custom build of Android that looks/feels nothing like Android... anyone have any guesses why they would want WebOS? Amazon already has the Android store, all the Android integration done for the Fire and the Java/Android expertise in house... where does WebOS fit in?

Does it have to be the webOS division? I'd imagine Amazon wouldn't have that much interest in Palm's software, but Palm is also one of the few entities in North America that has experience designing hardware from end to end. We know that Amazon had to outsource the design and build of the Fire to an outsider, no doubt it would be preferable to bring that in-house to a team of world class industrial designers.

The hardware was the weakest link. Also, It was my understanding that a lot of the hardware division have been released recently.

Maybe Amazon just want some patents, some good engineers and a backup OS for leverage against Google?

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#42

Post by hollerith » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 10:30 AM UTC

vanadium wrote: post #36

j_col wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at this from back in 2009 when Apple were raising the possibility of sueing Palm over the original Pre being too close to their iPhone (according to them): http://technologizer.com/2009/01/23/palm-responds-to-apple-i... Of course this never happened, because to quote Palm at the time: "Palm has a long history of innovation that is reflected in our products and robust patent portfolio, and we have long bee…

It's not difficult to ascertain that ACCESS/Palmsource very likely granted unconditional use of the patents to the existing Palm that sold those very patents to them, therefore giving it basically unfettered rights to defend itself against Apple in this scenario.

I think -- although I am not sure -- that you have to own a patent in order to sue for infringement, which -- if true -- puts a big hole in your argument.

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#43

Post by nodata » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 11:09 AM UTC

octover wrote: post #32

nodata wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Amazon work with Google to create the Fire?

No, they didn't. The biggest sign you can see out in the open is that the Fire is running a fork of 2.3 Gingerbread instead of 3.0 Honeycomb or the upcoming Ice Cream Sandwich.

Oh yes, from looking at them essentially forking it, it looks like they didn't work together.

But my question was whether or not they _did_ work together, one of the tech sites wrote that they did. I will try and find the reference.

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#44

Post by alttag » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 11:18 AM UTC

mappu wrote: post #20

sksultan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) HP's probably offering it for pennies. Too good of a deal for any tablet/mobile player. b) Amazon Silk is a game changer that probably has Google fuming. Buying Palm is probably a hedge bet in case Google clamps down. The end-user platform(devise, OS, browser) war between Google, Apple, and MS is to control the user data. Amazon wants to make sure it has an unrestricted piece of that data.

I don't know if Silk has Google "fuming".. Opera Mini has been doing the remote-rendering thing for years and years now. It is the most widely used mobile browser, with 113+ million users and 2+ billion daily pageviews.

  > [Opera] is the most widely used mobile browser

Use appears to be mostly from Asia. In Europe, iPhone leads by a wide margin, followed by Android; in North America, Android leads, followed by iPhone [2]. Opera makes at best a fourth place showing on these continents.

To your point about "fuming", I think you're right. There's no evidence that Google's analytics or search (advertising) products will be negatively impacted by silk.

1: http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-eu-monthly-201009-... 2: http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-na-monthly-201009-...

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#45

Post by brudgers » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 11:29 AM UTC

modeless wrote: post #14

What would Amazon do with WebOS when they have already invested so much in Android? Switching would require them to abandon the app store they built. The Silk browser seems at odds with how WebOS works. All their Android UI customizations would have to be rewritten.

>"Switching would require them to abandon the app store they built."

There's no reason a company cannot have two app stores.

Indeed, even Apple does.

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#46

Post by ssharp » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 11:39 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #45

modeless wrote: post #14

What would Amazon do with WebOS when they have already invested so much in Android? Switching would require them to abandon the app store they built. The Silk browser seems at odds with how WebOS works. All their Android UI customizations would have to be rewritten.

> "Switching would require them to abandon the app store they built." There's no reason a company cannot have two app stores. Indeed, even Apple does.

Apple does, but for devices that are clearly different. There is clear differentiation between the iOS app store and the OSX app store. There is also clear differentiation between the iPhone and iPad sections on the app store. The three forms are physically different enough to draw a cognitive line in the sand. I doubt many people who own an iPhone think it's an iPad or own an iPad and think its a Mac.

If Amazon ultimately uses WebOS to get into the phone market, I could see them easily managing two different app stores easily. If they create one set of Android tablets and one set of WebOS tablets, it's going to be a bit trickier. All of this is really going to depend on how apps fair on the new Amazon tablet.

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#47

Post by brudgers » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 11:46 AM UTC

ssharp wrote: post #46

brudgers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Switching would require them to abandon the app store they built." There's no reason a company cannot have two app stores. Indeed, even Apple does.

Apple does, but for devices that are clearly different. There is clear differentiation between the iOS app store and the OSX app store. There is also clear differentiation between the iPhone and iPad sections on the app store. The three forms are physically different enough to draw a cognitive line in the sand. I doubt many people who own an iPhone think it's an iPad or own an iPad and think its a Mac. If Amazon ulti…

That's a bit of a "true Scotsman".

And misses the relevance of the app store for Amazon, who sell slates to sell book content.

It also ignores the most common approach to app stores.

The OS determines which app store one can visit.

I.e. even my mom can't download Macapps to her iPhone.

[Edit]Your argument also assumes that Amazon will not differentiate the tablets which seems contrary to their differentiation between the Fire and Kindle (e.g. touch screen operation means different sorts of apps).

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#48

Post by joelhaasnoot » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 11:54 AM UTC

eurleif wrote: post #31

avree wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has shown that they're open to pivots and trying new things before. I wouldn't be surprised if they made two different lines of Kindles, with different OS's. They are trying to achieve market dominance with the Amazon App Store—with WebOS they could truly achieve market dominance since they'd be the main source of apps.

But the Kindle Fire is supposed to be an appliance. It's supposed to Just Work. Adding a second tablet with a different OS would confuse Amazon's target audience.

So where are there 5 different Kindle products?

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#49

Post by spinchange » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 12:25 PM UTC

It's the patents.

Re: Amazon in talks with HP to buy Palm

#50

Post by iand » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 12:35 PM UTC

The only way I can see this making sense is if Amazon could buy the supply chain relationships that HP must have built for their tablets. Probably HP have options/exclusivity deals on display and chip production for the coming years.