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Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

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Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#261

Post by yk »

Etherlord87 wrote: post #211
yk wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also a lot of systematic biases in western media, first of all they all write that the west is really, really great. If they don't write that, and only write that the west is really great, then their readers will look for a publication that uses an appropriate number of "really" when telling their readers that the west, and by extension the presumably western reader, is great.

Can you point to some examples of that? Sorry but your revelations sound like utter bs...

Iran's nuclear program, that looks actually a lot like Germany's in the 60ies. Both are most likely some kind of nuclear threshold strategy, that is one tries to exploit dual use technology and push the actual decision wether it is a civilian or military nuclear program as far out as possible. Now, it is possible to interpret that as a military program, however the qualifier that that is an interpretation, and that it wasn't actually shown is always lost. And that is precisely how these kinds of biases work, it is not that newspapers outright lie, they just use their wiggling room in a consistent manner.

Actually best to observe is at the Olympics, there is across competitions and therefore across commentators, a very consistent national hierarchy for which athletes the moderator will make excuses or for which athletes the moderator seeks to qualify the performance. (Think of doping for example.)

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#262

Post by tarsinge »

m_fayer wrote: post #178
2xpress wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you got down-voted by pissed-off Russian men, but your prediction regarding what will happen in the Russian society is spot on. The problem with the alcoholism and prostitution over there has already been pretty bad, but now it will of course get much much worse. Unfortunately, so far in history Russia has only been a one huge long tragedy. Navalny gave a speech at his kangaroo trial that his wish is that Russi…

He's getting downvoted for the retrograde gender attitude. Even if he's making a valid point, casually using language like "men protecting their women" and "any man will..." makes me roll my eyes and reach for the downvote before I even realize what's happening.

Context is very important here. Saying that in NYC or Paris, sure that’s ridiculous. In Russia? That would not surprise me. Our ideals of society should not prevent us from seeing a current reality.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#263

Post by Borrible »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #253
Aeolun wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Don’t we have some servicemen on vacation in Ukraine right now? They’re just there on holiday, sightseeing in their A10.

PUTIN: These guys were on a holiday there THE WORLD: gasps UK: These guys were on a holiday there THE WORLD: claps Or as the saying goes "Rules for thee and not for me". [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30488680

Absolutely right you are, sir.

We all have to thank the Russians to have shown the world in 2014 how to do it. And before that. And also to give us a great opportunity for Whataboutism.

Sigh, I probably still have those Bezmenov brochures from the early eighties lying around somewhere.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#264

Post by smcl »

twelve40 wrote: post #176
smcl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're certainly not, but they're the biggest and the Russian airlines already own or lease a lot of Boeing and Airbus planes. Aeroflot is nearly all Airbus[0] and Rossiya[1] (largest operator of Russian-made Sukhoi planes) is around half Airbus, half Sukhoi. They could indeed just scrap these and buy a shiny new fleet of, say, Embraer jets but that would involve retraining pilots and support staff, not to mention a…

Just like Embraer would have a ton of trouble delivering a 500 plane replacement, think about what would it take to return 500 leased planes (and for the leasing companies to lease them to someone else to avoid going bankrupt, and for Boeing to deal with a deluge of cheap second-hand planes, etc etc). Even if all 500 planes are instantly returned at the end of March (how?), there will be reduced traffic to Europe due…

I think the point being made originally was not that the leased planes will be returned (many articles suggest they won't), it was that these planes need ongoing maintenance and parts which the airlines won't have access to. The original tweet thread viraptor is referring to suggested that this is something that will hit the airlines much sooner than we laypersons might have imagined.

We'll see in the coming weeks, but the scenario you describe where a catastrophic decline in Russian flights such that there are enough non-Airbus/Boeing planes that can manage them is effectively a collapse in Russian civil aviation sector which is kinda what the thread was implying.

The thread in question https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498723248183382020.html

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#266

Post by ZeroGravitas »

nirav72 wrote: post #236
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was the generally accepted rationale? What other explanations are there?

Another theory being thrown around is that Putin also wants to reduce Russia's western defensive line by reducing it down to 600 km versus the 2000+ km it currently has after the break up of the Soviet Union. By taking non-nato nations on the European side, its back to the original line before the pre-soviet collapse.

That is just the same theory expressed in a different way. He cant control the people of Ukraine by giving then a decent life as a Russian satelite, so he's invading them to force a pro-Russian government on them.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#267

Post by katcher »

delusional wrote: post #198
esperent wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to point the finger when you're not the one facing the very real threat of 15 years in a Russian prison.

That's a fair point, but the state of their prisons and their political system is their responsibility, right? I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.

Putin is effectively unelected. Their election system is a multi-tiered hoax and just another method of deception.

The alcoholic "President" before Putin had actual tanks firing at congress when things didn't go his way.

Before that, communist supreme rulers who murdered those who opposed them. And their own party members to get the throne.

Before that, Tsars, imperialist supreme rules who murdered those who opposed them. And their own family members to get the throne.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#268

Post by jacquesm »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #146
jacquesm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Putin was given faulty intelligence that Ukraine would roll over and welcome the invasion because of their urge to return to the Russian fold.

I don't think I've seen that take and you may be mixing up what he says with what he thinks, always confusing when talking about blatant liars. I've seen people saying that he thought he could force them to install a pro-russian regime (or further split the country) with shock and awe and merely the threat of great violence and underestimated the will and ability to resist, and overestimated his ability to project po…

What Putin thinks only Putin knows, everybody else is reading the tea leaves.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#269

Post by justsomehnguy »

Borrible wrote: post #263
justsomehnguy wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PUTIN: These guys were on a holiday there THE WORLD: gasps UK: These guys were on a holiday there THE WORLD: claps Or as the saying goes "Rules for thee and not for me". [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30488680

Absolutely right you are, sir. We all have to thank the Russians to have shown the world in 2014 how to do it. And before that. And also to give us a great opportunity for Whataboutism. Sigh, I probably still have those Bezmenov brochures from the early eighties lying around somewhere.

It is always funny how people can legitimize anything if it is used against the people they don't like.

"Bombing civilians" is unacceptable if they are from "Europe" like Ukraine.

"Bombing civilians" is fine if they are savages from Middle East, Africa or "not-Europe", like Russia.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#270

Post by Borrible »

jacquesm wrote: post #256
p1esk wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil war? Majority supports the invasion, the rest is indifferent, and 0.1% are protesting (soon to be jailed).

Note the 'at some point': Russia can't go on like this, regardless of whatever popular support Putin has at this point in time. It's about as meaningful as the support for Kim in NK.

It's not the problem what we think they can get away with. The problem is what they think they can can get away with. And in what time frame. They obviously operate in a different frame of reference. Their military doctrine is also different from ours, apart from the obvious shortcomings at the moment. But it doesn't matter militaryly, they don't fight us, they fight the Ukraine. Because of their bloody nukes. A shame Patton was right in his motivation to stop the Soviets. That would have been before they get nukes themselves.

They have set the anchor in these negotiations between us and them. They want status quo ante 1997. They will at least get Ukraine. Perhaps Moldavia.

And they created chaos. Which always also bears opportunity.

And China will wait.

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