Last Day of IKEA in Moscow • Hacker News Board

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#201

Post by topper-123 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

nuccy wrote: post #48

bitwise101 wrote: post #36

Go visit the homepage of this newspaper. It's crazy, there's no clear reference to war or attacks. This article on Ikea is just an attempt to tell the desperation without breaking the censorship law.

I was also surprised by this. I find it absolutely crazy. The reason is that just few days ago the parliament of Russia introduced a law on "fakes about Russian army" with 15 years in prison penalty. What is "fake" is not defined so anyone for any statement about the war could be put in prison. Ah yes, people are also forbidden to call this a war, an agression or an invasion. You may say that there are other outlets…

This is actually easy to know:

Did you say something positive (judged by the state)? It is not fake news.

Did you say something negative (judged by the state)? It is fake news.

It is a simple erosion of citizen rights, giving the state vastly more power over its citizens than previously.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#202

Post by kronks » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

No post body was provided.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#203

Post by cudgy » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

konart wrote: post #111

twelve40 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now we are all of a sudden in the "might come to a halt" hypothetical. Ok. First of all, at least 40% of the planes are home-built, so aviation in Russia most certainly will not come to a halt. Then, how do you picture 500 planes getting returned and leasing companies instantly re-leasing them to other customers to keep their own business afloat? Even if that does happen, worst case, that will reduce Russian air t…

> First of all, at least 40% of the planes are home-built, so aviation in Russia most certainly will not come to a halt. Home-build - maybe, but not without parts from the US\EU, not to mention most of the production equipment is not Russian too and you have to maintain it or replace it at somepoint. Oh and to build something you need materials - some are local, some will have to be replaced if possible. This will be…

Or salvage parts and engines from the leased Boeings if they are comparable.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#204

Post by vkou » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:13 AM UTC

Borrible wrote: post #29

k12sosse wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And frankly said, if the performance of the Russian furniture industry is similar to that of the Russian military, I wouldn' buy a doorstop from them. Russian military doorstops are a dime a dozen right now in Ukraine.

Oh, my God, that 40 miles convoy. A crawling duck, but sadly no Warthogs in sight. It's a shame.

Yes, it's a terrible shame that NATO is not engaging in a full on fight with a nuclear adversary.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#205

Post by mkl95 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

dpq wrote: post #74

mkl95 wrote: post #39

Life just became extremely boring for Russians.

Quite the opposite, life became too exciting, in a bad way. Mr. Putin: invade and trash one country, get the second one trashed for free.

It must be a bit shocking to lose access to basically every service that requires interacting with a Western economy while your country expects you to go about as usual. If you live in North Korea chances are you don't know any better. But Russians had access to the same things we do until a few days ago.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#206

Post by nikitaga » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:15 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #67

rr808 wrote: post #20

What I'm curious about all the sanctions is what if Russia changes? Say Putin quits or is killed and the replacement withdraws from Ukraine. Are we back on again?

For me the line to cross would be that Russia gives up their nuclear arms. They have shown that they are willing to use these for extortion rather than as a last means of defense, which I think should be enough to cause them to have to give these up.

Russia will never give up nuclear arms. Just look how that worked out for Ukraine (...)

Also, Russia is too damn big and unpopulated, it would be almost impossible to defend it all without nuclear deterrence. Much like Canada, in that regard.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#207

Post by oezi » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:16 AM UTC

aftergibson wrote: post #120

oezi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, it seems more russians are concerned about not getting a BILLY than standing up to Putin.

Just like when the west stood up to the US Government and stopped the Iraq war? It's easy to point the finger when you're far from the reality.

It was meant half as a snarky comment and half as a sad testimonial of human nature. I mean: You hear the news that Ikea is closing, you likely link it to the world news, you think "got to buy some last minute furniture". I know it is human.

On the other hand: Lots of people protested the Iraq war. Lots of governments in the west did not participate in the coalition of the willing and protested (I know Germany under Chancellor Schröder did). Should we have done more against it? Probably. I still would justify it with it being a 9/11 aftermath thing, where the USA was on a rampage to get revenge and at the same time being absolutely unchallenged 10 years after the end of the cold war. They couldn't have been stopped by anyone.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#208

Post by mrtksn » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:17 AM UTC

selfhoster11 wrote: post #196

mrtksn wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't program a Färgrik or the machinary that spits Färgrik into existence.

I was responding to the question: > Does Russia already have a talent base or flourishing industries for all the stuff they are being denied? (...) They used to have huge talent pool of all kinds during the Soviet times but that is no longer the case. That's why I brought up programming. If the legendary Russian skills are still extant in that industry, then that's one example of a pool of talent that remained intact…

Sure, there are great programmers in Russia. How is that relevant though?

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#209

Post by cudgy » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:18 AM UTC

serpix wrote: post #130

mercy_dude wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing makes me question the western/NATO motives of not pursuing de-escalation. Wouldn’t agreeing to Putin’s NATO non expansion terms be better than letting your economic competitor to basically establish monopoly on the entire Russian economic atmosphere?

Supplication to a tyrant worked only to incite unprovoked invasion and war crimes. The west believed that integrating Russia through economy and trade would bring us together. It only revealed Russia is not yet ready and still believes everybody is out to get them like some traumatised recluse. Enough is enough, the west has awoken to the sad reality that Russia has not changed. Also the Baltic sovereign nations reme…

You do realize that Russia has more nukes than any country in the world, right? Whether you like it or not, cornering Russia in this way and not offering a way out of this mess without some dignity is an invitation for Putin to do something catastrophic and desperate. Big talk like this is foolish and could end up with a nuclear nightmare regardless of which side is right.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#210

Post by glogla » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:20 AM UTC

cudgy wrote: post #209

serpix wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supplication to a tyrant worked only to incite unprovoked invasion and war crimes. The west believed that integrating Russia through economy and trade would bring us together. It only revealed Russia is not yet ready and still believes everybody is out to get them like some traumatised recluse. Enough is enough, the west has awoken to the sad reality that Russia has not changed. Also the Baltic sovereign nations reme…

You do realize that Russia has more nukes than any country in the world, right? Whether you like it or not, cornering Russia in this way and not offering a way out of this mess without some dignity is an invitation for Putin to do something catastrophic and desperate. Big talk like this is foolish and could end up with a nuclear nightmare regardless of which side is right.

Maybe nuclear war is better than letting Russia win.