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Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

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Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people talking about working long hours at Apple are getting paid commensurately. Not really. Most divisions in SWE do stack ranking (unofficially). The top quintile (decile in some groups) gets a majority of compensation at review time. The bottom half is lucky to get a cost of living adjustment to their base pay. They likely will get no RSUs and little if any cash bonus. Despite the disparity in compensation…

So then that makes me wonder, why work there? For the prestige? For having a bad-ass CV entry? I've spent my 11 year career working in start-ups and companies that nobody knows about, I get paid enough to be in top 2% earners in EU, I never work more than 40h a week because that simply isn't legal for an employer to tell me to do unless it explicitly states so in my contract, and none of my contracts have so far stat…

> So then that makes me wonder, why work there?

To be clear: It’s because they’re still being paid very, very well.

The top paying tech companies are kind of a weird bubble because they pay so well on average but they also have a huge upward range beyond that for top performers. It leads to situations where someone can be making $200-300K per year but end up feeling underpaid because someone they know is getting $600K for being a top performer at a top company.

It’s also important to put it in perspective. Relatively few engineers work at these companies in total. The vast majority of engineers work at more mainstream companies where the pay is still good (though maybe not retire early good) and the hours are reasonable. People at the big companies are working long hours to compete for those few coveted top positions and top salaries. But you definitely don’t have to work at those companies.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics plain and simple. COVID protocols are very unpopular at this point and not every effective. Florida and Texas are having big inflows, california and New York huge outflows. Whatever your viewpoint this is the fact politicians see. And yes taxes and cost of living are a huge driving force not only COVID, but as long as remote work goes on people will keep moving to low cost of living and low tax states.

I get people are skeptical but let's be objective here. Not everything needs to be a conspiracy and an evil scheme. California and NY followed CDC guidance. We are past the Omicron phase and may be the data shows we are in the clear. If losing out people was the issue then did NY just participate in this "scheme" out of solidarity to California?

Objectively, the CDC are the dumbfucks who said not to mask up when this thing first started. They may have done that for what they felt were good reasons (they didn't want to run out of masks for frontline workers) or bad ones (the WHO didn't think aerosol transmission of COVID was possible). Their advice should be subject to more scrutiny.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When we went fully remote, suddenly it seems like any compunctions about that vanished; I would have meetings until 9pm 3 nights a week This is why there is a decline button next to the accept button. An outage or something disastrous, sure I'll stay online till midnight to help in anyway I can; a regular status update type meeting, no way.

I didn't feel like that was really an option. It became recurring meetings three times a week, and I got the vibe of "if you don't go, it's gonna look bad".

What does “look bad” mean exactly?

Never promoted? Fired?

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#414

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> There is a huge difference between "dying with COVID" and "dying from COVID". The distinction you're making isn't new - it's literally years old at this point.

No, people were always saying it but have only accidentally become correct now due to sufficient vaccination and omicron's lower fatality. The risk of death from COVID is now a bit less than the flu. Note it's still bad, you don't want to catch it. But you don't want to catch the flu either. People who think the flu is nothing are confusing it with a common cold - I got a flu Jan 2020 and couldn't get out of bed for…

Long COVID says hello.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#415
post #52

Maybe it's me, but I have yet to experience 'innovation' result from a conversation held over coffee or a chance encounter. I've had better luck creating connections with other parts of the business and exchanging ideas over the infrequent cocktail party where it's a mission of the night. Say all you want about open floorplans and irrelevant quiet encounters. Having said that, every situation is unique.

My experience is the exact opposite: most innovation I came across was the result of a in-person informal discussion. So yeah, YMMV

How does the in-person part differ from zoom or phone?

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#416

Apple has always been the more stringent about remote work, in terms of maintaining secrecy by keeping its workers on-premises, so this is the least surprising move.

They also just but a (what?) $8B donut that is barely used. Pride is a powerful thing.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put your work hours in your calendar and auto decline everything outside those hours. Refuse that nonsense.

thats how you get PIPed

I freely decline meetings too. Usually, add a note saying it is family time or unreasonable time for a meeting.

Never been a problem.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for the subset of small that are startups, small companies vs big companies isn’t a comp discussion. You will win on comp going to the smaller guys. It’s whether you want to burn for the moon or you want to live a comfortable upper middle class life. FAANG is 70% retirees, 30% dipole candle burners. And the 30% provide the value, while the 70% are along for the ride.

I work in a FAANG and I can tell you than nobody in my team is slacking. Quite the opposite. Everybody is smart and working hard, there's no way you can cruise. I think all new members work even on weekends. A colleague of mine got fired because he didn't meet expectations for his level. He would have been totally fine in other companies. Turnover is high despite the high compensation. I'm sure it depends on the comp…

Sounds like you're at the "N" company.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#419
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Large companies have gotten away with paying under market price for talent because employees have seen massive gains from stock appreciation over the last decade. Are you sure these places pay "below market price"? Just curious, what companies would pay significantly more than FAANG?

Look at sites like levels.fyi. The usual FAANG suspects aren't anywhere near the top of these comp lists these days.

I just did (in London), mostly Google/Amazon/Meta at the top, plus a few hedge funds, including Jane Street which pays insane amounts of money but who's also much more selective than FAANG.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#420
post #407
post #291

I suspect we are going to see some turmoil in the tech hiring space with stock prices taking a beating in recent months. Large companies have gotten away with paying under market price for talent because employees have seen massive gains from stock appreciation over the last decade. If total comp starts going down year over year, suddenly the more traditional, no-frills system at places like Apple, Microsoft and Amaz…

In the month it will the best time to look for software job ever. With Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian developers cut off, companies, that used to rely on remote teams, are going to be in the hiring frenzy to replace them. Smart ones are already in the hiring frenzy.

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