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Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

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Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#111

Post by ochrist »

zozbot234 wrote: post #105
vidarh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of shared second language English would probably just remove the need for trying to find a middle ground. But as a middle ground understandable without knowing a second language, it loses out because so much of its vocabulary comes from French. E.g. chair vs. stol, stoel, Shtul, a word that even has close cognates in Slavic languages (but the Germanic is hanging on in English in "stool"). An English with Fre…

A Germanicized English would probably work well enough given that English has such a pidgin-like grammar anyway. You wouldn't have to deal with the whole part of simplifying the language, there's already a widely used standard for that.

Something like this? http://www.i18nguy.com/twain.html

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#112

Post by wheelerof4te »

medo-bear wrote: post #108
wheelerof4te wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interslavic seems just as understandable to me. Sometimes I wish all slavic people had one country, one language. Let's call it Slavia.

draw a possible map of Slavia and see it from a perspective of neighbouring non-Slavic countries. would you find such a political structure threatening? this is the reason i think it would be a bad idea. what would be nice in my opinion is a larger inter-slavic cultural exchange: in academic research, text books, litterature, music, film, etc

They find us treatening even now.

But yes, cultural exchange can be a good first step.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#113

Post by medo-bear »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #82
stared wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such an idea of a greater connection between Slavic nations called Pan-Slavism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Slavism ). When it comes to "one country" - the USSR aimed at that, and from the perspective of hundreds of millions of people, it wasn't the best idea. Plus, I think that ethnic states are one of the worst inventions of the 19th century, which accelerated a lot after WWI & WWII. I prefer cities…

USSR was a blasphemy because of it's communist nature. It was an abomination born in blood. Slavs were never for communism.

> Slavs were never for communism

i disagree to some extent. historically slavic culture tends to be much more communal than rest of europe. even in eu you can see this manifested in thr resistance to liberalism that comes from all (?) slavic countries

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#114

Post by kgeist »

throwaway290 wrote: post #43

This sounds to have a Russian angle to me (e.g., the word 'vse'). Why not base on Serbian instead (which would use e.g. 'sve')? It sounds more traditional and often makes more sense etymologically (to my ears as a native Russian speaker; I can't properly speak Serbian but I did a brief foray into it).

>This sounds to have a Russian angle to me (e.g., the word 'vse')

Proto-Slavic *vьśi ("all") would yield "vsi", not that far off. Many modern Slavic languages add additional suffixes: wszystcy, všichni, vsichki etc., which are secondary. Serbian comes close but they swapped the first two consonants: svi.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#115

Post by throwaway290 »

kgeist wrote: post #114
throwaway290 wrote: post #43

This sounds to have a Russian angle to me (e.g., the word 'vse'). Why not base on Serbian instead (which would use e.g. 'sve')? It sounds more traditional and often makes more sense etymologically (to my ears as a native Russian speaker; I can't properly speak Serbian but I did a brief foray into it).

>This sounds to have a Russian angle to me (e.g., the word 'vse') Proto-Slavic *vьśi ("all") would yield "vsi", not that far off. Many modern Slavic languages add additional suffixes: wszystcy, všichni, vsichki etc., which are secondary. Serbian comes close but they swapped the first two consonants: svi.

They did not just swap it, did they? Svi (everything) is also related to svit (the world), which is also in Russian as svet. This is why I say Serbian made more sense to me as a native Russian speaker.

Likewise Serbian sutra, which in Russian is zavtra, same idea (in the morning, i.e. tomorrow) but with seemingly more unnecessary manipulations (considering morning is still utro in Russian).

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#116

Post by tomp »

zone411 wrote: post #4

Interslavic is another similar project. They don't like Slovio too much: http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/index.html http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/faq.html#slovio

interesting. From my perspective (Slovenian native, know some Serbo-Croatian & Russian), Slovio is much better.

At first glance:

- Interslavic needlessly complicates the alphabet - there is no need for "y" where "i" would suffice, there is no need for "Ě" where "je" would suffice

- Interslavic needlessly complicates spelling / words - surely there should be a drive towards simplification and shortening, especially in a "shared" langauge:

    "koristajut" -> "koristaju"
    "medžuslovjansky" -> "medslovanski"
    "jest" -> "je" or "es"
In general, I can understand most of Interslavic and most of Slovio, but Slovio is easier.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#117

Post by zozbot234 »

tpoacher wrote: post #110

Choice of 'x' for softness is very weird. I get that in the cyrillic alphabet, 'x' is the 'h' character, but once you transliterate to a latin alphabet, it makes no sense to use it in that way... Especially when the role of 'h' in latin alphabets has been hard-to-soft conversion specifically in most languages (and transliterations) using it.

'x' is just intended as a generic character I think. Its use in digraphs is straight from Esperanto. You're right that canonically it connotes "harshness" as opposed to "softness", but clear alternatives are kinda lacking and it's better than nothing.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#118

Post by kgeist »

throwaway290 wrote: post #115
kgeist wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This sounds to have a Russian angle to me (e.g., the word 'vse') Proto-Slavic *vьśi ("all") would yield "vsi", not that far off. Many modern Slavic languages add additional suffixes: wszystcy, všichni, vsichki etc., which are secondary. Serbian comes close but they swapped the first two consonants: svi.

They did not just swap it, did they? Svi (everything) is also related to svit (the world), which is also in Russian as svet. This is why I say Serbian made more sense to me as a native Russian speaker. Likewise Serbian sutra, which in Russian is zavtra, same idea (in the morning, i.e. tomorrow) but with seemingly more unnecessary manipulations (considering morning is still utro in Russian).

Pretty sure Serbian swapped vs- > sv-, the word is not related to "svit" (it's a folk etymology).

Russian vs'ak "everyone" = Serbian svak "everyone"

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#119

Post by Toutouxc »

rdeselby wrote: post #81

As a Slovak / Czech speaker I find Slovio a bit easier to understand than Interslavic, despite the mentioned non-slavic choices. Interslavic seems to be south-slavic biased. Purely subjectively, Slovio text reads more aesthetically pleasing. I think this might be because the south-slavic roots are more prominent in our east dialects spoken in the country side, while Slovio seems closer to me to the standard codified…

Czech here. I agree that there's a lot of that southern-slavic vibe in Interslavic, which I don't really mind, it's kinda nice and exotic, but I totally don't find Slovio more aesthetically pleasing, mainly because of the weird "x" thing. My mind keeps pronouncing the Czech "ks" sound.

Re: Slovio, an international simplified Slavic language

#120

Post by ajuc »

medo-bear wrote: post #96
qwerty456127 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian just is not a great example of a Slavic language. It is a Slavic language in general yet way too different from the rest of them for a number of reasons.

> Russian just is not a great example of a Slavic language. i am not sure what you mean but russian is by far the biggest slavic language in terms of number of speakers. i also think it is the biggest in terms of number of litterary and academic works

He probably meant that Russian is an outlier is many respects when it comes to Slavic languages.

Something like Slovakian would be much better as a base.

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